Hyperthetically joking about it and actually doing it are hardly the same! :shrug:

Yeh. Especially when it's to agree with someone we're friendly with, and to belittle someone we don't talk to much in the same breath :wavey:

Choor, all that negative tibb cliquey stuff went away not so long back. Only lord knows why it's come back recently :think:

Give it a break - nothing cliquey about you and yours then! :rolleyes::

Then every vote is undemocratic, because this goes on before every vote or election and has done since the very beginnings of democracy... it's always been there and you either believe it's a system that people can see through / work around, or you don't. You surely can't claim that voters were immune to being swayed by fear before the original referrendum and the result was legitimate... but THIS time, all of a sudden the very same voters ARE going to be swayed by fear, making a second vote undemocratic?

Either both of the results are fair and democratic... or neither of them are.


[Note: I'm actually on the fence about where I stand on the above statement. I agree that these votes are manipulated by interested parties and the media... I think the results very rarely reflect "the real truth of the matter"... but that's not a new thing starting with Brexit, it's been going on with the GE since voting became fully open to the general public - 100 years ago this year.]

As the first was fair and democratic there is no need for a second - simples!

Again... There being no need for one doesn't make it Undemocratic to have one.

You can't complain about 'fear-mongering' while ignoring the fallacies and fairy tales that formed the cornerstones of the Leave campaign. It's basically complaining about one cheap tactic just because the cheap tactic you backed wouldn't work twice in a row.

Every vote is democratic by nature, you can't just disavow things because they might not go your way. I voted Remain yet I wouldn't want a second vote to happen just because people who don't know what fact checking is believed in the lies of the Leave camp and now they regret it. Votes have consequences and people need to lie in the bed that they've made.

Votes indeed do have consequences - but no doubt if Brexit is the success many believe it can be the sour-faced remainers doing their worst to stop it will undoubedely be quick to reap the benefits - hope they choke on it.

Who left?

Don't get that argument all all, people get to review their vote every 5 years or so in a GL, they also get to boot in and out councils, there should be a vote on the final deal, a straight yes/no backed up by a load of lies on both sides should be up for review

:joker: Is that me you're alluding to? I'd like to take the credit but the fact is that 'this negative tibb cliquey stuff' has always been present on here - though it was usually 'Left-leaning' members 'gang-banging' solitary members who disagreed with their joint skewed viewpoints.

Oh, and then it erupted again during my absence, I believe. :wavey:

:laugh: See - this is why SD is such fun, your slant on who the liars were on the EU facts and figures is the POLAR opposite of mine.

And we will NEVER agree no matter how many posts we make.

I take your point Twosugars and respect you for making it civilly.

Nobody said anybody left.. unless you know something I don’t
No, I’m not pointing fingers. I was just stating that there was a good two-week break from all the petiness, cliques, and drama a little while back, but it seems to have all come back very recently.

I’m not aware of the time that it ‘erupted in your absence’ but I’ve been wrong before.

Dunno maybe you need to look at your own interactions, for someone who doesn't want drama, you seem very keen to upset certain members, that's the way I see it anyway

You don't get it because you're applying my one off vote logic to recurring votes like Elections.

The public have had their say twice on Brexit, the first was whether or not it should happen and the second was the general election which basically turned into a 'which party do you want running Brexit' vote. If people don't get the Brexit they want then it's their own fault for voting poorly. We've known since before the election that Theresa May's government was weak yet people got suckered into voting for her because she repeated a slogan ad infinitum like she was a pokemon.

Remember that the original Referendum question was whether or not people wanted to leave or remain, it wasn't what kind of Brexit they wanted if we left. That would be determined by which party got voted into power and the people chose a wishy washy government who will likely be bowled over by the EU.

If we keep having referendums on whether we like the way Brexit is going then we'd have one every few months.

I dunno, none of that happened when a handful of members left a little while back, doesnt seem like the obvious conclusion.

A quick run down of the threads in SD will show a pattern of behaviour from you, it doesn't take Einstein to see it either

Considering that Micheal Gove was telling people to ignore expert advice on what would happen if we left the EU, it doesn't paint a strong picture for the likely outcome and being optimistic won't change that. If the leaders of the Leave movement were trying to tell people to ignore expert advice just because it wasn't what they wanted to hear then what does that say for the chances of a successful Brexit?

The whole campaign was based on lies and presumptions from both sides, as an electorate we shouldn't accept that, run a clean campaign with facts not scaremongering then I will accept the result

There are experts on both sides so attempting to suggest expert advice is all against Brexit is not well informed or honest, whichever applies.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: All so TRUE Cherie. All so true.

It would be nice but it's not going to happen, neither the voters nor the politicians are interested in facts.

Can you offer proof of the main Remain leaders telling the voting public to disregard expert opinions they didn't like? I can't remember seeing anything like what Gove said from the Remain side.

Maybe because you had no one to argue with!

I agree about the Politicians but I know lots of voters who are clamouring for honesty and hard facts.

No one left,people often have breaks,what does it matter to you anyway when people come and go:shrug:

There were and are many experts stating that Brexit will be a good thing for this country and it’s economy. I don’t much care about Gove - don’t like the man - or whether anyone from the remain camp said the same thing as him.

But the majority of voters will vote for anything that they want to hear regardless of whether it's true or not. Look at the referendum and how effective the lie about the NHS getting more funding if we leave was despite there being plenty of proof that Brexit wouldn't affect NHS funding, it was a lie that was dropped the morning Leave won yet it was one that would have brought in a lot of voters who wouldn't have fact checked because they voted for the lies they wanted to hear.

Most voters aren't well informed, it's just simply the truth.

I was just commenting on how all the petty jibes, cliqueyness, and drama wasnt here a couple weeks back, but seems to have all returned very recently.

It was relevant when I first brought it up (because it happened inside of this thread for the first time in ages), it just seems super offtopic now though.

So if the people voted in the UK to leave the EU, it's the people's fault(?) for voting the wrong way because the politicians won't do the job they've signed on to do?... No, that's not how it works at all... Don't post in SD. Call your rep. It's no-one elses business how you've decided to vote, much less why... if they have a problem with it, let them pound sand. When the politicians are fail to do their job, hold them accountable.

Your job is to land this plane

I dont know how to land the plane

Sorry the passengers of this plane all voted, you must land the plane

I still dont know how

It is the will of the people

Im probably going to fail

NOT GOOD ENOUGH

More like

"Land the plane..."

"It doesn't have wheels! We need to parachute out!"

"Land it..."

"It only has one wing! And no engines!"

"LAND THE DAMN PLANE"

We had the choice of whether to stay or go, we had the choice of who runs the show and we still voted to keep an incompetent government in place despite knowing how terrible they were. Of course it's the people's fault if they are unhappy with how things go because THEY are the ones who decided to leave, they are the ones who decided which party should handle Brexit.

The bit about 'contacting your rep' is all well and good but it's not realistic. The Tories are running things and they'll be running things for years until the next election at least, they don't give a **** what people think because the election is way off. It doesn't matter if people are happy with Brexit or not, the referendum was to decide whether to leave or not, not HOW we should leave. The only control we had over that was deciding which government should handle it and people chose a terrible party to do it.

Voters only have themselves to blame.

Blame for what exactly - do you have a crystal ball? Even the experts cannot agree on the outcome so how you profess to know is quite extraordinary! :rolleyes:

Brilliantly expressed Maru. 'Tis no surprise though that it has fallen on deaf ears.

And you once lectured me on hyperbole. :laugh:

With Corbyn and Abbott in opposition, the Tories will be 'running things' well into the 3rd Millenium.

As to 'Blame', I echo what Brillopad says - No One KNOWS for certain whether Brexit will be a positive or Negative for the UK.

I believe that if events were ALLOWED to take place WITHOUT the covert and sinister machinations and interference of the 'Illuminati' (for want of a better word) who WANT us to remain in the EU, then Brexit WILL only be beneficial for the UK.

That 'IF'is the key though because Brexiteers are up against a very powerful, very wealthy, very well organised, very well connected enemy who are aided indirectly by covert factions within the Labour Party who share the same 'Remain' objective though for different reasons.

Finally as poor as the Tories are proving to be - there is NO viable alternative because if Corbyn gets into power, all the complaints about the Tories will seem oh so petty.

It's OK, SD happens...

I trust what's been said by a wide variety of experts on all sides, not just the ones I cherry pick to suit my opinion.

Very few experts have anything good to say when it comes to Brexit.