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-   -   Do you think Pansexuality is a thing? (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341231)

Withano 20-05-2018 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redway (Post 10001519)
Show me who here's convinced pansexuality's a discrete orientation. Is it the people you've been arguing with on this thread since?

Give it a chance, your incoherent thought process has only been up a few seconds.

Redway 20-05-2018 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withano (Post 10001521)
Does this not seem like roundabouts. Youre missing the part where pansexuals do not care for gender. it isnt the same no matter how much you want it to be.

Unless youre claiming anybody who ever would sleep with both sexes is bi, I don’t see your point.

Ain't that the definition of bisexuality right down to the T?

Christ on a flipping bike.

Oliver_W 20-05-2018 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withano (Post 10001521)
Does this not seem like roundabouts. Youre missing the part where pansexuals do not care for gender. it isnt the same no matter how much you want it to be.

Nor do bisexuals, as they like both.

Denver 20-05-2018 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver_W (Post 10001525)
Nor do bisexuals, as they like both.

Bisexuals choose which gender to look for pansexuality you allow the gender to find you

Redway 20-05-2018 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withano (Post 10001522)
Give it a chance, your incoherent thought process has only been up a few seconds.

And everyone else on this thread who isn't flogging this pan-sexuality label is raving too according to that. I see.

It's all about you innit. Everyone has to be 100% behind the label and if they're not all on board they need to run it by you in no fewer than a whole essay about why they doubt the validity of a million and two alternative sexual labels that have all popped up in this century.

Withano 20-05-2018 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver_W (Post 10001525)
Nor do bisexuals, as they like both.

They are sexually attracted to both genders.

Pan people do not care for your gender.

TomC 20-05-2018 09:51 PM

Why are some backward people so annoyed by minorities defending themselves, and trying to gain acceptance lmao

TomC 20-05-2018 09:51 PM

@Redway

Withano 20-05-2018 09:52 PM

A thread about if it exists is a bit pointless when the people in it are kind of refusing to acknowledge what it is supposed to be.

Redway 20-05-2018 09:52 PM

People are backward for not agreeing with all these 21st-century labels. I see.

Withano 20-05-2018 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redway (Post 10001535)
People are backward for not agreeing with all these 21st-century labels. I see.

Its been about since the early 1900s, dude.

Denver 20-05-2018 09:53 PM

I am surprised nobody has made a joke about shagging a frying pan :idc:

TomC 20-05-2018 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redway (Post 10001535)
People are backward for not agreeing with all these 21st-century labels. I see.

Which labels are you referring to? Discounting 'pansexual', which is pretty widely accepted.

Redway 20-05-2018 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomC (Post 10001538)
Which labels are you referring to? Discounting 'pansexual', which is pretty widely accepted.

Demisexual for one.

Oliver_W 20-05-2018 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam. (Post 10001527)
Bisexuals choose which gender to look for pansexuality you allow the gender to find you

So sexuality is a choice, is it? Bisexuals get to "choose" who they're attracted to? Gotcha.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Withano (Post 10001531)
Pan people do not care for your gender.

So how is that different to being attracted to both genders? Someone who's bi wouldn't care which gender they date.

Denver 20-05-2018 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver_W (Post 10001542)
So sexuality is a choice, is it? Bisexuals get to "choose" who they're attracted to? Gotcha

Bisexuals decide whether to look for a man or a woman

Withano 20-05-2018 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver_W (Post 10001542)
So sexuality is a choice, is it? Bisexuals get to "choose" who they're attracted to? Gotcha.

So how is that different to being attracted to both genders? Someone who's bi wouldn't care which gender they date.

A bi person would consider dating a man because they are sexually attracted to men and a bi person would consider dating a woman because they are sexually attracted to women. A pan person would consider dating both, but not because of sexual attraction to gender.

Oliver_W 20-05-2018 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam. (Post 10001545)
Bisexuals decide whether to look for a man or a woman

Nice of you to speak for bisexuals. I can say that bi people may intend to look for a man or woman, but can easily fall for the other. Especially if they have a good personality!

Oliver_W 20-05-2018 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withano (Post 10001548)
A bi person would consider dating a man because they are sexually attracted to men and a bi person would consider dating a woman because they are sexually attracted to women. A pan person would consider dating both, but not because of sexual attraction to gender.

Again, I don't see why that needs a different label. Bi people can like both genders and prioritize personality instead of looks, and that doesn't make them "pan".

Do you draw a line between a bisexual who puts personality before sexual attraction, and someone who is "pansexual" ?

Withano 20-05-2018 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver_W (Post 10001551)
Again, I don't see why that needs a different label. Bi people can like both genders and prioritize personality instead of looks, and that doesn't make them "pan".

Do you draw a line between a bisexual who puts personality before sexual attraction, and someone who is "pansexual" ?

You dont see the difference between somebody who is sexually attracted to both genders and somebody who does not care for gender?

Really? Sleep on it. Theres a pretty obvious difference lol.

That’s not really what this thread was about.

Oliver_W 20-05-2018 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withano (Post 10001552)
You dont see the difference between somebody who is sexually attracted to both genders and somebody who does not care for gender?

Enlighten me, pretend I (and anyone else who doesn't see why "pansexuality" is a thing) am an idiot. How is there a difference between someone who is attracted to both genders, and someone who doesn't mind why gender they date?

user104658 20-05-2018 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withano (Post 10001548)
A bi person would consider dating a man because they are sexually attracted to men and a bi person would consider dating a woman because they are sexually attracted to women. A pan person would consider dating both, but not because of sexual attraction to gender.

Sorry Withano but this is a massive oversimplification of the concept of attraction :think:

Withano 20-05-2018 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver_W (Post 10001553)
Enlighten me, pretend I (and anyone else who doesn't see why "pansexuality" is a thing) am an idiot. How is there a difference between someone who is attracted to both genders, and someone who doesn't mind why gender they date?

Well... to get blunt (might as well, Ive tried everything else), a bi person is typically sexually aroused by cock, pussy and tits. A pan person is not. They are sexually aroused by a persona, they dont care what bodyparts you have.

If that doesn’t work, then sleep on it.

Withano 20-05-2018 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 10001555)
Sorry Withano but this is a massive oversimplification of the concept of attraction :think:

I know. I’m slowly giving up, the more thoughtful posts were towards the beginning.

Oliver_W 20-05-2018 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withano (Post 10001556)
Well... to get blunt (might as well, Ive tried everything else), a bi person is typically sexually aroused by cock, pussy and tits. A pan person is not. They are sexually aroused by a persona, they dont care what bodyparts you have.

If that doesn’t work, then sleep on it.

Still not seeing why this needs a new label. Typically speaking, genitals on their own aren't all that attractive - how many girls actually appreciate dickpics? Very few, because an out of context nob isn't attractive. People of any sexuality can be aroused by a personality instead of genitals, and that doesn't make them a subset of hetero/homo/bisexuality.

Redway 20-05-2018 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver_W (Post 10001558)
Still not seeing why this needs a new label. Typically speaking, genitals on their own aren't all that attractive - how many girls actually appreciate dickpics? Very few, because an out of context nob isn't attractive. People of any sexuality can be aroused by a personality instead of genitals, and that doesn't make them a subset of heteo/homo/bisexuality.

Or a new sexuality full stop.

Firewire 20-05-2018 10:33 PM

I don't know enough about it to comment really.

But anyone is entitled to label their sexuality as they please. If that's pansexuality then let them.

Ant. 20-05-2018 10:44 PM

im a lesbian :)

Tom4784 20-05-2018 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withano (Post 10001466)
Well no to your second paragraph, because pansexuals do not care about the sex or gender of their partner... so, that on its own makes it very different than gay or straight people... or bi people.. who all do care about sex or gender of their partner...

I think you’re focussing on the similarities instead of the differences... the similarities being that yes, both bisexuals and pansexuals historically date both sexes... that doesnt make them the same though.

I guess it just comes down to whether you believe a person can be sexually attracted to a personality. Everything else is irrelevant, their only turn on is a personality. And I would say yes, that is possible. I don’t see that at all similar to a bisexual person. Bisexual (and heterosexual and homosexual) people are attracted to people for their genders, pansexual people are not, there are differences as well as similarities.

Jessica, for instance said she was demisexual, and that she was sexually attracted to a man once, that doesnt detract from a womans heterosexuality. They’re two separate things, with both similarities and differences.

Everyone can be attracted to a personality, it's not something that's exclusive to pansexuals. There are plenty of straight, gay and bi people out there that have had relationships with people, not because they are the best looking people around but because they've had winning personalities. Some people are attracted to people who are funny, for example. That's just a type and any person of any sexuality can have a type when it comes to attraction.

That alone is not worth it's own sexuality, especially if the definition will always be condescending and demeaning to bisexuals.

Tom4784 20-05-2018 11:17 PM

One thing I've learned in life is that if you find yourself jumping through hoops to rationalise something then it's probably not correct.

There's a lot of jumping through hoops when it comes to making out that there's any real difference between bisexuality and pansexuality.

Ashley. 20-05-2018 11:45 PM

I'm really on the outside looking in when it comes to debates like this, but from what I've gathered... All of these labels are essentially taking an already small minority and splitting it into groups of even smaller minorities, all with the common aim of being accepted but at the same time having contrasting views, as mentioned in the OP, that attack and belittle each other. And I think it's contradictory to want equality but at the same time argue that other sexualities are wrong because they don't account for 'all genders' or 'non-genders'. Of course, I'm not saying that on the whole, pansexuals are terrible etc... but I believe that creating these labels and dividing the minority hinders more than it helps.

Cal. 20-05-2018 11:51 PM

I had my first kiss with a pansexual boy

Withano 20-05-2018 11:57 PM

Theres a very large difference between being sexually attracted to both male and female genitalia, and not caring much at all for either but being sexually attracted to personality types imo.

If pan people dont associate with bi people because they literally dont share the same sexual attraction as them, then.. well.. so what?

You don’t get hetero-romantic asexuals calling themselves straight, or straight people demanding that theyre no different to them.

Pansexual people dont feel bisexual, they dont have the same sexual attraction as a bisexual person.

thesheriff443 21-05-2018 12:01 AM

It's only words at the end of the day, I find it's far easier to judge than it is to be judged.

Redway 21-05-2018 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withano (Post 10001663)
Theres a very large difference between being sexually attracted to both male and female genitalia, and not caring much at all for either but being sexually attracted to personality types imo.

If pan people dont associate with bi people because they literally dont share the same sexual attraction as them, then.. well.. so what?

You don’t get hetero-romantic asexuals calling themselves straight, or straight people demanding that theyre no different to them.

Pansexual people dont feel bisexual, they dont have the same sexual attraction as a bisexual person.

Heterosexuality isn't some uniform experience either by the way. Some straight people give more of a damn about personality than looks. Should they be split off into divergent groupings?

Note that in that example it's only the extent or quality of the sexual attraction that differs. Not the direction. Same goes for this bisexuality-pansexuality thing you've been flogging for the last seven pages.

RichardG 21-05-2018 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redway (Post 10001666)
Heterosexuality isn't some uniform experience either by the way. Some straight people give more of a damn about personality than looks. Should they be split off into divergent groupings?

this is what i don't understand. i don't reach for my dick every time i see some random girl's tit, personality would arguably be the biggest factor. what does that make me? what is my diagnosis? am i now a part of the lgbt+ community? not that i particularly care anyway, these obscure genders and sexualities don't seem to matter to anyone other than those within niche internet subgroups.

Redway 21-05-2018 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardG (Post 10001667)
this is what i don't understand. i don't reach for my dick every time i see some random girl's tit, personality would arguably be the biggest factor. what does that make me? what is my diagnosis? am i now a part of the lgbt+ community? not that i particularly care anyway, these obscure genders and sexualities don't seem to matter to anyone other than those within niche internet subgroups.

"A divergent and morbid form of heterosexuality wherein, contrary to the norm for young guys, he doesn't shag the first girl in the club and character usurps more of an influence of position than looks."

Charactersexual flipping pervert. How dare you place more on personality than physical appearance and still try and pass for 100% straight.

Jack_ 21-05-2018 12:36 AM

Before you can even begin to unpack this question, one has to understand that the very notion of "having" a sexual orientation in the first place is not an inherent truth, but something which has been discursively produced over the last three centuries. All sexualities (and their parameters) have been created - and that's a key point.

Consider this too - there are a multitude of things that can encompass one's sexuality, narrowing it down solely to gender and/or genitalia preference is actually very delimiting. Eve Kosofsky Sedgwick's Epistemology of the Closet is an enlightening and thought-provoking read on this matter:

Quote:

It is a rather amazing fact that, of the very many dimensions along which the genital activity of one person can be differentiated from that of another (dimensions that include preference for certain acts, certain zones or sensations, certain physical types, a certain frequency, certain symbolic investments, certain relations of age or power, a certain species, a certain number of participants, etc. etc. etc.), precisely one, the gender of object choice, emerged from the turn of the century, and has remained, as the dimension denoted by the now ubiquitous category of "sexual orientation". This is not a development that would have been foreseen from the viewpoint of the fin de siècle itself, where a rich stew of male algolagnia, child-love, and autoeroticism, to mention no more of its components, seemed to have as indicative a relation as did homosexuality to the whole, obsessively entertained problematic of sexual "prevision" or, more broadly, "decadence". Foucault, for instance, mentions the hysterical woman and the masturbating child, along with the "entomologized" sexological categories such as zoophiles, zooerasts, auto-monosexualists, and gynecomasts, as typifying the new sexual taxonomies, the "specification of individuals" that facilitated the modern freighting of sexual definition with epistemological and power relations. True as his notation is, it suggests without beginning to answer the further question: why the category of "the masturbator", to choose only one example, should by now have entirely lost its diacritical potential for specifying a particular kind of person, an identity, at the same time as it continues to be true - becomes increasingly true - that, for a crucial strain of Western discourse, in Foucault's words "the homosexual was now a species". So, as a result, is the heterosexual, and between these species the human species has come more and more to be divided.
(pp. 8-9)

Quote:

It is certainly true that without a concept of gender there could be, quite simply, no concept of homo- or heterosexuality. But many other dimensions of sexual choice (auto- or alloerotic, within or between generations, species, etc.) have no such distinctive, explicit definitional connection with gender; indeed, some dimensions of sexuality might be tied, not to gender, but instead to differences or similarities of race or class. The definitional narrowing-down in this century of sexuality as a whole to a binarized calculus of homo- or heterosexuality is a weighty fact but an entirely historical one.
(p. 31)

So...here's where I stand. I actually agree with whoever it was that said labels cause more problems than they solve. In an ideal world, we'd completely destabilise and deconstruct sexuality (and gender too) so that it wasn't even a necessary marker of identity. The problem is that this isn't going to happen for the foreseeable future - and what's more is for hundreds of years those who have been criminalised for their sexual transgressions have sought to demand legitimacy through reclaiming the same terms by which they were marginalised in the first place (what's known as reverse discourse). And so what are we left with? The bizarre realisation that all of the normative sexualities have themselves been constructed, and yet a firm opposition to the creation of anymore? That doesn't really check out for me, it's an all or nothing deal.

I once identified as pan because I thought it was the closest thing to 'open minded' or 'not needing a label', then I realised how unbelievably ironic that was. Now? It's probably bicurious for ease-of-explanation, but even then that doesn't begin to cover the nuances. The truth is that I am That Guy who's all ~I don't like labels~ but that's only because I don't think the complexities of human sexuality can be narrowed down to convenient boxes we've created to help understand the world. But hey, if labels work for you, great! All power to you. Identify however you like...or don't at all...either way it doesn't really matter.

Ashley. 21-05-2018 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesheriff443 (Post 10001664)
It's only words at the end of the day, I find it's far easier to judge than it is to be judged.

See I don't believe that disagreeing with pansexuality or any other label is 'judging' as such... I don't believe that there should be all of these extra labels, but I don't discriminate against those who have the beliefs or ideas that belong to what is expected within those labels. I just think that it is a lot easier and a lot less complicated to have sexualities with exceptions or differences rather than dedicating a whole new notion to housing those differences.

RichardG 21-05-2018 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redway (Post 10001668)
"A divergent and morbid form of heterosexuality wherein, contrary to the norm for young guys, he doesn't shag the first girl in the club and character usurps more of an influence of position than looks."

Charactersexual flipping pervert. How dare you place more on personality than physical appearance and still try and pass for 100% straight.

guilty as charged your honour! lock me up and throw away the keys, along with just about every other man and woman above the age of thirteen!

honestly, if the theory goes that pansexuals are attracted to personality while the rest of us are attracted to genitals and that's that on that then we're essentially all being called perverts and i'm lowkey offended.


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