I think it's pretty ****ty they didn't consult the family first

Because it was cold. Even for you. But yeah, I wasn't surprised either.

I dunno why you have such a chip on your shoulder about the parenting thing Marsh; it's perfectly legitimate (and logical) to say that someone who is a parent and has a child has a more experienced and informed opinion on matters related to being a parent or having children?

Why would that not be the case?

And why make comments like "it's not big or clever to pop out a child! Thick folks can have kids too!"

Like... Thick people learn to drive too. It's not big or clever to learn to drive, basically anyone can do it. But that doesn't mean that the opinion of a driver isn't better informed than a non-driver in a discussion about road etiquette. It's not that other people can't have an opinion or that their opinion might not be correct or valid, or that a driver can't be totally wrong about some topics (God knows, there are plenty of disagreements) it's just pretty obvious that there IS a difference between the opinions. Surely.

I mean you can say it about anything! Building a PC isn't hard. Look at a few YouTube videos and BillyBob with an IQ of 80 can do it but once he's done it, his advice on building one yourself is going to be better than a certified genius who has never even looked inside one?

These are probably crap examples but you can see my point. Surely.

Its ludicrous for people to say "I don't have any kids but I know just as much about how a parent feels for their children as those who do!". Like... How? And how could you possibly know if that statement is true?

I can say with some certainty - as a parent and a self confessed ex-non parent (I spend decades being one of those :worry: ) that while yes as a non-parent it's perfectly possible to empathise with the emotions that a parent feels about their offspring... It's not the same as having them. It just isn't. And you also sort of have to accept that every parent has BOTH perspectives because every parent HAS BEEN a non parent, whereas obviously, those who are not parents only have ONE perspective and can only possibly be guessing about the other.

So no its not big, it's not clever, it's not difficult to have kids, it's not a "moral victory" or any sort of achievement but it does usually result in a shift in perspective. I don't know why so many non-parents take issue with that.

She'll never have closure, full stop. I don't think anyone can truly have closure in this instance, but going on a tv show for an interview where everyone is nice to you, where you're able to tell your story can provide at least a little bit of closure. I don't blame her for using them as platforms, people handle grief differently. Plus, it's her story to tell, after all.

Except... we're not discussing how to raise a child, how formula works, the best brand of nappies or the best education system.

We're discussing a murder. So, no, I won't be told my opinion isn't as valid as someone who has had a child because it's complete bollocks. We can ALL relate to losing loved ones, as Livia said you don't have to be a parent to know or understand or comprehend the loss of a child. It's universal.

But, yeah, maybe the magical superiority that enters a person once they've had sex and conceived a child means the ones murdered by their parents are right too. :hee:

Has nothing to do with having kids.

A lot of parents don't have that perspective and a lot of non-parents do. Having a child simply isn't a valid argument in this case.

Next you'll be telling me age denotes maturity.

I disagree but I fully accept that you have a different opinion; I just cannot fathom why you're salty enough about it to be unable to even debate it reasonably and without the 'tude.

Maybe becoming a parent makes one more mature in that way, too :shrug:.

Again you're stating your opinions as fact; you don't (and can't possibly) know if and how your life perspectives will change if or when you have children. It's literally impossible. It can only be hypothesis?

Having my opinion on the actual topic of the thread dismissed because I don't have an offspring will make me salty. I can't fathom why I'm being asked to debate a ridiculous notion instead of the actual topic of the thread. It's a diversion tactic, nothing more.

But then as a qualified parent I'm sure you can explain it.

Cept the oscars (the biggest awards ceremony) did.

Except.... I didn't say perspectives, opinions etc don't or can't change with life experiences. You've missed the point.

I'm saying having children (or not) doesn't automatically make your perspective more valid or otherwise. Especially on a topic like this.

The action of "having a child" simply does not automatically give anyone a more valid perspective. It's bollocks.

The rush of unconditional love that most, not all most, parent's have on the birth of their child in indescribable. However, as a parent we also dont know how we would deal with the brutal horrific murder of that child unless it happens to us (which I hope not one of us ever has to really think about let alone live through) so yes, we can empathise with the Bulgers but we are also the same as any non parent in not knowing how we would deal with it. I always said if anything ever happened and I lost my son, I would want to go with him so he wasn't alone,it just doesn't bear thinking about but unless (god forbid) anything did happen I don't know how I would react to anything

Of course they did. It's basically the point of them.

What about parents who have lost a child, do they?

Exactly.

And also, not every parent feels the same towards their child, some parents feel absolutely nothing towards them so it's a meaningless generalisation for people to make.

You mean someone who... has gone through the exact same thing as Denise? Take a wild guess.

Romans used to set lions onto slaves and people would watch.

The internet has made the most horrific scenes viewable at the click of a button.

People would not make these films if no one would watch them and even if you banned them that would only make people want to watch them more.

Humans are closer to animals than we think.

No, just someone whos kid has passed away, do they have a better percpective on her feelings on the matter?

Better than what?

We're discussing the validity of people's opinions and the ability to empathise.

Someone who HAS actually experienced something is a completely different story.

Certainly have more of an insight to the pain and suffering parm....:hug:

Yeah, that's true.

I can talk as someone who has lost a kid, a 16 yr old boy.

he died in a room surrounded by his new mates, all taking legal highs..sadly for my son out of all of them who fell unwell he was the one who didn't survive..

So let's say the paramedics who worked on him for 2 hours solid had body cams on for one of those tv programmes and they aired that footage without consulting me.


It's bad enough for me imagining my sons last moments, so I can't even begin to think what she goes through as she tries to sleep at night......and that's without having this ****e forced in her face now.

I do wish they had contacted her having read a bit deeper but apparently it is meant to be an unbiased view.

Until I see it can't have much of an opinion really

Marsh, as a parent the first cuddle with your new offspring is an unbreakable bond....people with kids and their opinions on this matter far out way people's without kids due to the fact they imagine their kids as they think about this case.

But why wasn't the family asked first ?? , it is out of order tbh .

Some would argue was there any need for this movie to be made? . But i haven't watched it so i don't know how it's been handled.

But Sometimes even when a crime is still recent & fresh they insist on making a movie about it and i don't understand why .

Having actual footage of your son's final moments sold to TV and film companies for profit without your consent is a completely different thing to a dramatisation of police interviews in the form of a piece of drama.

And what about parents who form no bonds? Non-parents who form major bonds with children in their life?

It's a ridiculous generalisation which was only brought into the discussion as a means of saying "well I'm right and you're wrong because I have reproduced".

The feelings I would be feeling would be exactly the same as what she is feeling.

Fair enough. I imagine even stronger if they were using actual footage of your son's death.

It's unfair you felt you had to remove it, whoever was offended is a bit silly in my opinion - if something is close to your heart it is normal to have a picture of it as an avi surely

It's not the same, you would get over the death of someone else's kid even if you did have a bond with them, you just don't get over the death of your own.


When it's someone else's kid, other people die as life goes on so they are blurred into the background. When it's your own kid I'm pretty sure it's always at the forefront as life goes on.

See, even me airing this like this helps me...but it's my choice..

I think that's the issue here, it's her grief, her families grief and they should be the ones controlling that..IMO...nobody has the right to interfere in that....

I don't think anyone is necessarily trying to control her grief

A good few are judging her grief though, what business is it of theirs on here?

You can't speak on behalf of everyone and tell them they don't or can't understand.

I'm not talking about the neighbours kids.

Again, you're generalising.

I'm saying they don't understand as much, not that they can't understand.

No one is telling you that you can't have a valid opinion on perspective on the Bulger case; this disagreement has come almost entirely as a response to a few of the "opinions" on the first page about the mother's grief that could, frankly, only have come from people without children. And did.

So what if the mum makes some money anyway..as long as she's talking about her son she's happy..and for what she's been through we should all be happy for her.

Re-read. Non parents CANNOT understand and there is no substitute for having children.

Again, it's bollocks.

Is she suing them or something?

There probably isn't.

In your opinion. Stop stating opinion as fact.