Again Joey, if this is the motivation of James Safechuck then he should be making a fortune in Hollywood. You would honestly have to believe that he's an A-grade method actor. Also do you genuinely believe that several members of their family are in it - saying things that they know will make them internationally hated and branded liars - for a small slice of interview money?

I understand that people really want to believe the best of Michael Jackson but I think doing so involves convincing oneself of things that are just not realistic, and automatically disbelieving adults with childhood abuse stories because they "waited so long" to say anything is really a dangerous mindset. MANY childhood abuse survivors don't say anything until adulthood, and the late 20's / early 30's (exactly the age these men have hit) are bang on the usual time that people start to process and understand childhood abuse that happened to them.

If he wasn't so good at music he wouldn't have so many people defending him

Its on Ch4HD tomorrow Weds 9PM - 10:50PM Part 1
then Thursday 9PM - 11PM Part 2

[What People Are Saying About HBO's Michael Jackson Documentary 'Leaving Neverland'
The reaction has been mixed.]
https://www.cosmopolitan.com/enterta...hbo-reactions/

Debate now on ITV1HD "This Morning"
on "should his music be banned " like Radio 2 have

:clap1: Ive seen people on Facebook saying him being a filthy pervert should be forgiven because he made good music !! WTAF ?

Madness, imagine he was just some average dude that worked in a shop having kids over for "sleepovers"..Pleaaaase

The parents need to take some blame too, would any parent let their child sleep at a grown mans house and let them sleep over ? makes you wonder if he didn't pay the parents to allow it

Absolutely, I can't wrap my head around it

That's a lot of assumptions you're making about a lot of people.
Assuming why they think the way they do and even predicting what they may think if some hypothetical scenario that hasn't happened might happen.

But you do you.

Well, haven't two of the dads killed themselves?

I'm of the mind that, at this point, we probably won't ever know one way or the other. I just hope the accusers can find some peace in all of it.

Well, Wade Robson's mother at least seems to quite deeply blame herself. Also his older brother (who is 9 years older so was in his late teens when Wade started hanging around with MJ, and clearly thought the whole thing was weird) expresses towards the end that he's struggling to get his head around forgiving the mother for letting it happen. The other mum doesn't seem to blame herself as much, just acknowledges that it's crazy how taken in the whole family was. TBH it's pretty clear that both were swept up in the excitement of having a big celebrity so closely involved with their family and didn't so much turn a blind eye on purpose, but definitely let their guard down in a way that CLEARLY no one would with any other random adult coming into their lives.

Although "Abducted In Plain Sight" suggests that it happens with randoms too :think:. There are actually quite a few bizarre parallels with that documentary e.g. how they felt about him, wanting to protect him, that they loved him and lied for him etc... all very similar to the girl in that case. And she also didn't recognise it as abuse until adulthood, while there's no question of the man's guilt in that case. It's proof in itself that these things (them protecting Jackson and lying for him) are not actually unusual at all in grooming cases.

Indeed, although Wade Robson's dad had a history of mental health problems and killed himself before the abuse allegation. That said, reading between the lines, I feel like the dad had a major problem with Wade (and his mother and sister) being so deeply involved with Jackson right from the start and that probably played at least a partial role in their marital problems.

If Jackson wasn't a pop icon would the parents have let their kids sleep in the same bed as him ?

of course they wouldn't and it's totally crazy for people to say there's any other reason an adult would want to sleep with strangers kids other than he's a paedo .................imo

Totally agree ,why would a man build a funfair in his garden if not to get kids to want to keep coming back to his house ....
reminds me of a dirty old man asking kids if they want to go see his puppies

Years ago they was a documentary on MJ and his strange sleeping habits, but can I hellaslike find it

They will earn loads in interviews etc.

If he wasn't a pop icon Chuff none of this would be happening as there would be no money or fame to gain . he was an eccentric ,but imo he wasn't a peado ,he just liked kids but its like you can't touch kids today as you're labelled a peado, other children stayed there and they have not accused him of anything ,but the two who now claim to have been abused by him defended him in court ,he wasn't a child either he was 20,and now 10 years after his death they start talking,so imo once a liar always a liar,so I need truthful proof.

That logic is totally flawed, though... "he didn't abuse ALL the kids who went to his house, therefore he didn't abuse any of them".

Alsobthe reasons they've defended him in the past are well laid out and explained in The documentary and fall well within normal for abuse victims. You might not "get it" but that doesn't really change anything.

:laugh2:

He just liked sleeping in bed with strangers kids ..........sure Jan

What's telling for me is how robson said when he got older he felt Michael was turning to new kids, making them his favourites... robson would then do what was asked of him thinking it would make him Michaels favourite again..... sounds like grooming to me.

MONTREAL (AP) — Three major Montreal radio stations have stopped playing Michael Jackson songs as a result of child-molestation allegations against the late musician that aired Sunday in an HBO documentary.

A spokeswoman for the owner of the French-language stations CKOI and Rythme and the English-language The Beat says Jackson’s music was pulled starting Monday morning.

Cogeco spokeswoman Christine Dicaire says the action is a response to listener reactions to the documentary.

She added that the decision will also apply to Cogeco Media stations in smaller markets in Quebec. The company operates 23 radio stations.

The documentary “Leaving Neverland” began airing on HBO Sunday. It details the abuse allegations of two men who had previously denied Jackson molested them and actually supported him to authorities.

I think both the victims who have come forward didn't make accusations at the time because they may have felt guilty because they would maybe have enjoyed it at times.

I remember my 2 year older cousin getting me to touch his cock then allowing him to touch mine in a tent one night..at the time it felt ok but as the years past and I became older (think I was ten at the time because we had just moved next door to them) I became bitter and it resulted in me having a punch up at my sisters wedding with him.

A few days later we sat down and he explained his grandad was abusing him at the same time of the tent incident....after his explanation I forgave him and we hugged it out as we had been mates all along.


So because of my experience at the time of seeing nothing wrong with it, and later acting out due to my guilt at the feelings I could remember of the night. Perhaps these boys at the time even though they were of adult age, perhaps they felt some loyalty to Michael when they decided not to testify.



So, there you go..just like everything else I tell you all...that there is the truth.

Exactly :clap1:

I think it's utter BS ,if it's true why do they wait 10 years after his death to basically go back on their word. They lied on oath then in court ?!! :suspect: .

For a grown man to sleep with other peoples children is wrong and can never, ever be right ,he hid behind the mask of being eccentric and naive, which I never believed he wash was sexual predator on innocent children .....like Saville hid behind his charity work and Cliff still hides behind God (Love you though xx )

Why did people come out about Saville and Ted Heath after death ? the same will happen with Cliff

that's so sad :(

Difference is though Chuff these two had previously stood up in court and under oath defended MJ and said he never ever touched them, they were 20 at the time , something stinks about all this. So they lied if what they are saying we are supposed to believe now, so why should I believe them now, and I don't ( love you too , (lol)

I watched the documentary and I kind of believe them tbh. I was shocked at how much they describe Michael as lonely and I would’ve thought as a huge star he would always have people around him, friends, family, assistants etc... but they describe him as lonely and that he became a part of their family. Like he was left alone in Neverland with just one of the children whilst the rest of the family went to visit the Grand Canyon.

Also everything they described really, as well as the sexual abuse, was grooming. He got these boys to fall in love with him they were completely obsessed with Michael and he was with him. On the phone to him 8 hours a day it doesn’t seem believable but it probably did happen. I think Michael thought he was a kid and so probably didn’t see anything wrong with it which isn’t an excuse he was a grown ass man putting his penis inside a 7 year olds mouth but I guess we’ll never know his mental state.

I’d like to see if you still think this after watching the film. But I agree with the fact that the parents were opportunists. They were offered houses, lavish gifts, and all expenses paid travel by Michael. Not only that but Michael essentially promised the boys and their families fame and fortune, convincing them to literally take their kids out of school to let Michael guide them. Keeping in mind, at this point in time, Michael was the biggest superstar in the world. Just as the boys were seduced, so was their families.

Well, it’s my opinion. People are blinded by his superstardom and the impact and influence his music had on their lives, that they refuse to accept any possibility other than his innocence. I don’t think this is all hypothetical, it’s pretty obvious all the of the backlash is coming from fans or people who haven’t even seen the documentary and are making snap judgements based on hearsay.

Only Wade Robson testified for him when he was in his early 20's, James refused and says that Michael was pretty angry about that. Wade Robson goes into plenty of detail as to why he supported him again; he still had affection for him, they were still friends, and at first he didn't want to be involved but Michael's lawyer talked to him and said something along the lines of "can you imagine what would happen to someone like Michael in prison". Other than that, they both testified on his behalf when they were still kids and they were still deeply involved with him.

The only reason people have a problem understanding this is because there's this idea that abuse victims must hate their abuser and want them to suffer but the very sad truth is that usually, the affection they felt for that person when they were "in a relationship" with them NEVER fully goes away. They were both deeply in love with him, while he was abusing them. Hard as that is to comprehend.

If you actually watch the documentary, it's fairly clear that for James that has started to twist into hatred now, but Wade still to this day clearly has a lot of affection for and good memories of MJ.

The misconception is that to be a child abuser he must have secretly been some evil cackling goblin. It seems like he was generous, fun, loving, attentive and affectionate... but still a paedophile.

So everyone who isn't in the "100% pedo" camp must be major MJ fans blinded by his fame?

No. Not really.

No, though to be fair I would say that most people who aren't even willing to consider or discuss the possibility are. The "I'm not even watching this because it's definitely lies" camp.

All well and good but not relevant to Ryan's opinion.

My husband told me he doesn't want to watch it because he knows he won't enjoy his music after if he does. . At least he's honest [emoji38]

Wbk he wasn't right when he was swinging babies off a balcony

But is this not, turning a blind eye, so he can still enjoy his music.

I know you can’t answer for gav, but is a few songs worth over looking the truth.

I think m j’s family are guilty for covering up what he was doing, his staff and friends are guilty for knowing what was going on and the children’s parents are guilty of letting their kids go and sleep at a mans house.

So everyone is guilty except the two lying men who testified on oath that he never touched them , I don't know why we bother with any justice system lets have trial by media , there are also boys who have said he never did anything wrong ,but lets concentrate on the liars,so many seem desperate to believe all the hearsay, the media were obsessed with MJ when he was alive and now they have another opportunity to tarnish his legacy , they must be having a field day, there is no actual proof or evidence ,just the willingness for haters to hate some more.No one knows the actual truth but so many willing to go with the rumours and condemn him.

:notimpressed: all of this coming to light now he's dead and can't defend himself