I'm absolutely devastated after that, I didn't even get this emotional playing this part of the game but I welled up watching that episode multiple times.

But it is revenge

What was sad is she had to watch the killing

Yes that was the sad part, she was finally going to give him a chance and she lost him.

Yes,
She was all ready to start again
him being her great buddy
He was the man who saved her.

I agree that was very sad

…the flame thrower scene was incredibly tense as he kept on coming while the flames were diminishing to nothing and seemed to be having little impact…

…it was probably one of the most emotional and brutal TV death scenes I’ve ever watched…I can’t believe that I started to watch season 3 of From just yesterday with the equally devastating, savage torture of Tian-Chen and then Joel today…and both deaths in themselves were intended and designed for not just an end but a tremendous suffering, weren’t they…which brings another level of harrowing and merciless…I knew Joel’s death was written in the video game but I didn’t know when it would come in this season…it made me think of when Negan killed Glenn with Lucille in TWD…and I know that it wasn’t Abby’s intention to have Ellie watch that final blow and beg Joel to get up but that she was there with him and witnessing it was just…a lot…:’(…

Yes great it saved that brave mans life
as it was the Bigger Evil Dead Fella

Oh Ammi, they horrific episodes to see two days in a row.
They filmed this slightly different to the game, I don't know if you'd want me to tell you. I think this was a bit more emotional too. It was just as awful as Glenn's death, you're right about that. I wouldn't be shocked if Abby was glad that Ellie watched, she's a very damaged girl.

…that was another thing that I felt was similar with Negan as well in how emotionally damaged he was and even before Abby has seen her father in the aftermath…?…it hinted at her having some kind of schizophrenia/type psychosis…both very damaged people …

Don't give up, he's still a huge part of the story and a motivator for the characters who continue on in further episodes. It's gruesome but there will still be scenes of beauty and glimpses of humanity.

…I know…it’s one of those screen moments that keeps reliving for me, it was so emotional and so brutal and savage…

Yes, if it stays true to the game, the flashback scenes are beautiful. Im sure we'll get a flashback episode

Thanks Jessica that is good to hear, yeah Ammi we watch it as a family my eldest son has played the game so he knew what was coming but didnt say, when it was over we sat there in total silence, just watching the credits roll, never experienced anything like it :laugh:

…it was such a brutal killing that we really felt Abby’s relentless hatred with as well…I more like to binge series like this and if I had binged with this…?…then I would have continued straight into the next episode which would have helped to erase the scene so I think that has a real impact for me as well …that those images and that scene has just stayed and will just stay until the storyline can move forward …as we know, having the death so early in the season…there is so much more storyline to cover…I also felt quite annoyed that it felt so hmmmm…unnecessary…I mean, as the fireflies said when they arrived …this wasn’t a small camp, it was a hugely made city and infiltrating it and then finding one person in it was a bit of task and he would have also been protected in his surroundings to a degree…but he just happened to ride out and Abby just happened to need rescuing…when surely the fall would have killed her and then awakening the dead and then him rescuing her…?…just everything falling into place for her in a very unrealistic way…I felt annoyed that, that would be doubtful to happen so it all felt unnecessary and how dare they do that to the storyline and to Joel…

…I also feel that a character such as Joel who has such importance and significance in the story…?….deserved a noble death, a death of honour and maybe giving his life to save Ellie or other characters…not that…what the heck are they thinking…!!!!!!…

I knew it was coming, I didn't know how brutal it would be though. Gav didn't know that Joel was going to die though so he was shocked. Poor Luke was traumatised all over again

He has done a lot of bad things and murdered an insurmountable number if people though. We love him because we know him but the people on the other side were doing the same, surviving the apocalypse too! It sucks though, I agree!

…I guess that’s it though, isn’t it…he’s one of the perspectives and eyes that we’ve seen the story through so that will obviously have a bearing and I do agree/I did agree with Abby that he killed her father in the blink of an eye …?…but her father was part of something as well and that’s what they all are…doing what they feel is best in terms of survival and future…and he was saving Ellie, the same way as Abby would have killed in the same way to save her father in other circumstances…and she wouldn’t have hesitated either…and the death she wanted and chose for him was beyond ‘revenge’ I feel…that was another level of something horrific…

Game spoiler: Abby in the game is HENCH and kills Joel by caving in his head with the golf club - show Abby is skinnier so I get why they changed it to her stabbing him with the broken end of it... it somehow seemed even more brutal that way, though. But I guess also saved them from having to create a Pedro Pascal prosthetic with a bashed-in head :umm2:. A "cleaner" death, in that sense.

Also it was interesting that they divided the characters up differently. Game differences:

It's Ellie and Dina on patrol together, not Ellie and Jessie.

Joel is on patrol with Tommy.

That scene is otherwise the same (Tommy in Dina's place) except that he gets hit in the head and knocked out, rather than injected with anaesthetic.

Dina and Jessie together find Ellie and knocked-out Tommy in the aftermath.

The attack on Jackson doesn't happen at all.

I actually understand all of those swaps to be fair - the Jackson attack makes sense because I always wondered where the infected hoard went in the game! After Abby/Joel/Tommy escape from them (and the lodge scene plays out) it just sort of cuts back to Jackson where everything is fine. Other than Joel being dead. Where did all the infected go? Never answered it's never mentioned again :joker:.

Also as they skipped the Joel/Tommy/Abby infected fighting they needed a replacement sequence for action + showing Tommy to have skillz.

There's a much longer sequence of Abby/Joel/Tommy fighting off infected together after Joel saves Abby, which IMO makes the killing more shocking/brutal, as they've been fighting side by side in the lead up to it.

Abby doesn't find out that Joel is Joel until after they get back to the ski lodge when he introduces himself (at which point she kneecaps him with the shotgun same as the show).

It was less tense if you've played the games 'cos everyone knows that the flamethrower is an effective choice against bloaters :joker:

Follow on from the above here's an interesting thought - Abby in show stabs Joel in the neck, game Abby kills him by bashing his head with the club. However... in the first game Joel kills Abby's dad by stabbing him in the neck (with his own scalpel) whereas in the show he shoots him. I wonder if Joel being stabbed in the neck in-show is a nod to that?

Is it fully going to go the same direction with Abby being a protagonist/following her story/getting to know her like the game does? I reckon show-watchers are going to be so confused when the show starts following her as not-a-villain :joker:

I think so, actually i think it's a cool idea for a TV show anyway to flip it like that. Myself and Luke had an argument about this last night, I could totally see Abby's side(he just hates her), Joel did kill her dad after all (yes I know he was saving Ellie but Ellie could have been the key to saving everyone and imo should have been her choice anyway rather than Joels)

While I also sympathise with Ellie, I've played through TLOU2 3 times now and I am totally Team Abby in terms of the events of the game. Also part of the point of it is to draw a parallel between them / the cycle of revenge, and get you to see that Ellie would 100% have done exactly the same as Abby in the same situation ... and what she ends up doing in in places morally very dark. 'cept "Manny" (the guy who swore at Joel's dead body as they left) that a-hole totally deserved to die. In the game he spits on him as they leave... guess the show writers thought that was a step too far :umm2:... though I actually think it was written as one of the things that fully pushes Ellie over the edge.

But yeah basically as much as I love TLOU1 Ellie, I found myself ever-so-slightly siding with Abby's POV in 2 :omgno:. What Joel did was horrific. Joel himself knew it and it left him kinda broken. There's a reason he knew straight away that they were ex-Fireflies... probably always suspected they might come for him if there were any left.

I haven't played the game like i said so while I have an idea of the story line It will still all be new to see it from Abby's POV, it's a good concept, uncomfortable yes but a lot of situations aren't black and white and there's always 2 sides so I'm sad Joel's dead but I'm excited to see the different perspectives as well, you don't usually get that in TV Shows

…seriously I didn’t think that muther was ever going to die…it was a bit obvious though when they were having the ‘drill recap’ that the hoards were going to come…

…Joel’s death is one of the most sad as well for me because Pedro Pascal is as hot as heck on screen every week…

two horses go...they went out with 4 horses and came back with two, the ex fireflies did not take them so...

So, the game contains several "flashback scenes" (quite long/extended scenes that could basically each make a full TV episode) between Ellie and Joel from the time between them moving to Jackson and where the show/game picks up 5 years later - so I imagine we haven't seen the last of Pedro, even though Joel is now gone.

Honestly TLOU2 is a huge game in comparison to the TLOU1... a LOT happens... so unless they cut out large parts I would think it's more than one season's worth of TV. I have a suspicion about where they'll end S2. But tbh it could easily be 3 sull seasons :umm2:

I think they may end S2 at the point where Abby catches up with Ellie and ***LARGE SPOILER*** kills Jessie and shoots Tommy, and potentially end S3 with the end of the Seattle storyline, then flesh out the post-seattle / Ellie's 2nd search for Abby section into an entire 4th season.

Joel had a horse, Dina had a horse, Ellie had a horse and Jessie arrived on a horse... the fireflies left with 0 horses... Jessie, Ellie and Dina left with two horses between the three of them... WHERE are the two other horses? I honestly think it's a "goof" or writing error, there's no explanation for it at all :joker:. The most you can say is, horses CAN be trained to "return home" riderless if instructed, but there's no reason they wouldn't just have both of them ride alongside even if Ellie wasn't up to riding a horse by herself.

I was fully expecting to see Joels body slung across a horse but no he was being dragged unceremoniously by a rope :fist:

When I saw the rope, I was just thankful that he was in a bag at the end - I thought for a minute they were just dragging him along by the ankles :joker:

Did the one horse have the extra passenger and have to pull the dead body too :fist:

But because of the snow
and they wrapped his body up,
so much, it was OK

…it’ll be interesting to see…(…if they’re following that same storyline as the game…)…how it translates to all of us who aren’t familiar with the game…because gaming is a different perspective in that the player has an active part and that active part gives other perspectives that we can’t feel as just viewers of the TV story …and also, those who have played the game and are familiar etc…?… will have already made that transition if you like, to see Abby in a more positive way…so going forward, whatever path the story takes, it’ll be easier to slot into it and find an understanding of it… on the screen, that image of her atm is only that of disturbing and brutal and cruel …I understand that Joel killed her father …?… and an eye for an eye in revenge etc…but she didn’t want that eye for an eye, did she…her aim as she said, wasn’t to kill him…it was to kill him slowly and painfully and brutally…that’s not something that ever entered his head in killing Abby’s father …even her fellow fireflies who knew her search for revenge…?..were seen looking sickened with what she was doing…/…the method…so yeah, it’ll be interesting to see going forward how any or enough positive light with Abby can translate to any non game players…

I agree that Abby's revenge went too far but that's really part of the plot and it's something that Abby comes to realise; that it didn't help her, it didn't make her feel better, and that it just continued the cycle of violence and revenge... and you can't look too harshly on Abby compared to Ellie as Ellie also goes down a dark path with Joel's death.

In-game Abby also ends up being a "protector" to a younger character much like Joel was to Ellie in the first game/season and there's a bit of subtext that she starts to realise and understand more why Joel did what he did to protect Ellie. There's supposed to be a sort of irony in all of it in that you get an impression that Abby and Joel are quite similar and would have liked/respected each other if they'd met under other circumstances. I dunno if it'll work the same way in the show because Abby in the game is an absolute tank, built like a brick shithouse and hard as nails, so it's very convincing that she acts as a protector to the younger character... in the show I don't know how it'll work as she's tiny :joker:.

…in say a James Bond game…?…we could see James Bind die and die again, couldn’t we because we have that objective of keeping him alive and that would be our focus plus making sure we blast every single bad guy off the screen…but that’s an entirely different perspective to seeing James Bond die in the screen and such a brutal death and how we’d feel about his killer……