Hannah and Ken were always gonna be goats regardless of who they sat next to out of the other 4 finalists tbh so did it really even matter what they did?

Ehh not sure about Brett winning depends on who he is sitting next to. If it's Ken and Hannah he wins but I doubt he beats anyone else.

I don't think it'd be of much interest to Ken and Hannah that Bret wouldn't win against anyone else when they were likely being dragged to the end no matter what

So your premise is that Hannah and Ken knew they weren't going to win no matter what and they chose to go with Adam because they wanted him to win the most?

...no? But Ken's risky strategy of taking David as far as he benefitted his game and then cutting him at the final turn is the only thing which could possibly have won him some votes, had he played it better at FTC (hypotheticals are fun!), so he didn't have any other options

And Hannah actually played it well at FTC so the fact that the jury chose to reward Adam for failing to do the same thing, albeit a day earlier, instead was out of her control (plus, it would have been pointless for Hannah and Ken to go with Bret and Adam when they were aligned at the precious vote, since they'd either have a) voted together against either Hannah or Ken or b) vied against one another to take both Hannah and Ken as the goats they were, which the jury would have lapped up)

Convincing the jury to vote for you is not out of your control.

Then what else should Hannah have done to win at least one vote against Adam Of All People?

Not play such a lousy game that everyone wants to take you to the end because they know they will beat you?

So you're saying she was such a goat that convincing the jury to vote for her at that moment was out of her control? :think:

(also "she should have played a better game to begin with" is the biggest hypothetical of all alol)

Yes to the first statement.
She might not be capable of playing a better game that's a possibility I suppose. But you asked what should she have done better and there is a ton of things she should have done differently if she wanted to win whether she was capable of making those moves is a totally different question.

The problem with this is that he seemed very worried she would die while he was away (which very nearly happened). He would have taken that worry away by not leaving and maybe telling the producers he would be available for another season. If he was considered 'cast worthy' I assume they would have waited. As it was we had this situation were he went on about how finding an immunity idol was the greatest achievement ever by him lol, and the usual US crap about him being an example or whatever. It's overblown nonsense, he didn't even play that good a game beyond finding a couple of idols.

I think my biggest issue with the funale and the vote is that as a result of the ~BIG MOVES~ mentality that's been shoved down our throats, Adam trying to play the game but falling flat on his face (misplaying idols, coming up with plans that never worked, trying to align with people who wanted nothing to do with him) was unanimously more respected than Hannah and Ken, who certainly didn't play stellar games but actually accomplished things and/or kept themselves in solid positions the entire time. Like, the game that Adam wanted to play is completely different from the game he actually played, and I don't think it's entirely wrong to say he won on accident. The Jury Speaks videos are basically every single person saying that Adam will get their votes no matter what because even though he failed miserably, he tried to make ~BIG MOVEZ~. Can anyone name a big move he actually made? Because I've been thinking and I can't.

A bunch of people, not just Chris, praised Adam for being the one to convince Ken to flip at F4 which is so frustrating because that's not what we were shown at all. But yeah, sexism in Survivor definitely still exists so of course no one would think of giving Hannah any sort of credit for anything even though she got her way for every single vote since the rock draw. I'll give Adam credit for giving the Jury what they wanted to hear, but it wasn't that hard of a task.

I personally thought Hannah's FTC performance was solid and I loved her shutting Adam's **** down where he tried to take credit for things he didn't actually do, but it was never going to go anywhere unfortunately. Some people are saying her FTC performance was bad because she kept interrupting Adam and talking over him, but that was her only opportunity to say anything because all the questions were softballs lobbed at Adam to hit out of the park and the show did away with opening statements and closing statements because apparently Final Tribal Council is too boring and too much of a time-waster (even though they insist on stuffing the Jury with 10 jurors which makes no ****ing sense but that's for a whole nother post that will probably come in a few hours about everything wrong with this season and modern Survivor)

Alright I don't really wanna defend Adam too much because he is far from my favorite and I don't think he is that great of a winner. I may have cast my vote for Ken instead of Adam but Adam played the game that this jury respected the most. What I will say about Adam is that I think he had the right ideas but he often did fail at executing the moves. That meant more to this jury then what Hannah and Ken brought to the table. I don't really blame them for voting for Adam because the other 2 weren't very good options.

Lucy should have won for making the #bigmove of failing to take out Jessica imo

No definitely, like I said, to Adam's credit he did do a good job at appealing to the Jury and giving them what they wanted, whether he was actively trying to do so or not. However, the part that's frustrating is that the Jury dismissed any possibility of Hannah playing a good game because of asinine **** like "she's a flipper" and "she took David out but not when we wanted her to." Hannah jumps in and explains "no, I actually did make these moves and here is why they were good for my game" and the Jury just puts their fingers in their ears and ignores it all. Like, the Jury probably thought that the optimal time for Hannah to get rid of David was at F7 or something, but then she would've gotten credit for making A Big Move and then become the next target and get taken out? Sure, perception is reality, but I think a lot of the perceptions come from some casual sexism ingrained into this show.

Just caught up and easily my favourite winner of all time <3

Easily among my worst winners. He'll be remembered as the 'dying mom' winner.

Decided to give this a watch. Rankings after episode 2:

1. Adam, the reason I decided to give this a shot
2. Ken
3. Mari
4. Hannah
5. Rachel
6. CeCe
7. Zeke
8. Lucy
9. Michaela
10. Bret
11. Jay
12. Will
13. Chris
14. Michelle
15. Taylor
16. Paul
17. Sunday
18. Jessica
19. David
20. Figgy :yuk:

Also /sob at the first two evictees both being asian girls :(

Figgy :love:

Maybe it's bias but I do think Hannah kinda deserved to win over Adam. I think she should've won but I didn't think she had a chance with this jury, especially after keeping David in the game at F5 (I guess that could've been credited to Adam anyway but with the jury seeing Adam's reaction, they know he wanted David out at F5 and Hannah/Ken did it later at F4). If she took out David & then turned on Adam at F4, that's a game winner IMO.

With the way it actually went down, I think it's close but she probably deserved the win anyway because she was constantly on the right side of the vote, she had people play idols and draw rocks for her (in fairness this was more due to a numbers battle I think but still) and she knew when she was a target. She had very good awareness in the game.

Adam played a fine game though and I can't discredit that. As much as he made sloppy idol plays and trusted some of the wrong people, a lot of people wrongfully trusted in him as well and in the end he outplayed them all, including the player of the season, David. Adam was a pretty big target throughout but he situated himself pretty well to get by. I don't blame them for voting for Adam, even under normal circumstances, but especially after you add in his situation with his mom.

Adam, Hannah and Ken :love: my top three so far

I'm catching up with this

Poor Jess getting voted out by a rock

David is a nutcase omg

You Have good taste :blush: And Dan and Keesha :clap2:

Spot on Starry! :clap1:

I'm pretty sure there's nothing that i'd have put before being by my mother's side when she was terminally ill and would very possibly die before i returned.

There was no reason for Adam to mention his mother's cancer during the jury questions other than to gain pity votes. I got the impression that Jay had probably already discussed it with his fellow jury members anyway so Adam didn't need to worry.

As far as i was concerned Hannah's points (when she got a chance to speak) were far more compelling, if you could see through Adam's shameless sick Mother-whoring tactics, than Adam's were. How could anyone discount Hannah because she ''flip-flopped'' when Adam ****ed everyone over without a second thought ? Hannah showed a great deal of loyalty whereas Adam showed none, not even to his Mother.