:laugh: I'm OK with it, Kaz - I had already told Lucas last week that I was leaving TIBB for good this time BEFORE all this. So I guess I won't be entering anything again either. :laugh:

:oh:

Mess, I think Riley's 9 Jury points all came from me?

I didn't really understand the voting process, who picked the juries, they came as a surprise to me

Congrats, I definitely think that any method of voting that can be abused like the Public vote should have been disregarded. It skewed the results in a ridiculous way and it cheapened the placings even when they deserved high placements because it looked rigged.

Juries were contestant's votes (the ones who weren't judging at least).

I didn't know you could vote more than once on the public vote, I just selected the same acts I voted for in the Jury vote.

If I am coming back as host in December (with Shaun taking hold of the voting), public voting is not coming back (not for a while).

Oh I see! thanks!

yes with a rap verse from Paul Dananbread

mess, you recognize talent :love:

I think you did great Josiah, you just seem too trusting though, when it should have been pretty obvious that if there is a way for people to right, they will do that, as some members are pretty pathetic and will ruin it for everyone else like that.

Trust the first one I perform in to be tainted.

I'm Morroco. I'm withdrawing forever. (But I will continue on fhe judging panel)

Truthfully though, Lucas, you were my 12 points, and I still piss myself when I think of you singing "doo doo doo doo" while holding a picture of Mary Berry over your face (what can I say, I'm a man of simple pleasures)

Congrats Kirk. You had my 12 :)

I love Dermot O'Leary taking back X Factor

Congrats Kirk :love:

Still cant believe i made top 4 think now is time to retire

I've not viewed this year but well done Kirk and everyone else :love:

although can someone tell me how the voting system worked :laugh2:

:laugh2:

Well done, Kirk. :love:

It's a shame really, about the results. I should have warned you, Josiah, after just having dealt with the same sort of thing. Still, take what you can from it. xx

.

I missed this so I have no idea how it worked someone help us!

I was going to read back but should I even bother?

Ooo... Most Loved intrigue ? :think:

Congrats Kirk... maybe the hubub over your win will finally out shadow that of mine lol

I didn't vote as I was out of town for a 10K run... I have witnesses lol... so I'm innocent !

Public Vote in which people could vote as many times as you want and also vote for yourself ended in obvious disaster bc it looks as if people voted for themselves (its clear to see who did lol)

You should’ve won either way Kirk so congrats anyway!

To be fair - as I have stipulated with Josiah - it's also entirely possible that someone else tampered with the votes to try and frame those who've benefitted from them. There shouldn't be any public accusations. I have a pretty clear idea of who I think is behind it but even discounting the obvious 300+ votes nonsense, there will have been people who thought "hmm, I'll vote 3 or 4 times" and that's just as bad and unfair, really. I don't see any need for a poll in an event like this when so much effort's been put into the entries themselves, it seems only fair that a little bit of effort should go into the voting too.

I've mentioned to Josiah that I'll "reclaim the game" but only in a few aspects.

- I'll post the thread and announce it when we've agreed on a start date.
- I'll collect all of the votes (via PM, and also count the judges' scores)
- I'll collect the entries as they are submitted by participating members

Otherwise, Josiah will do pretty much exactly what he did the night before last, because he did an excellent job with it and was a good host. So Josiah will still:

- Host the event with his (now customary) videos and opening titles, etc.
- Design whatever he likes for the event (such as those song-information banners for the voting)
- Reveal the results (the only difference here is that I will know them this time :laugh:)
- Have a Wikia for the event as he has done for...gosh...I don't know actually. 5 years maybe?

The only thing that I think needs to be decided on is the final scoring system. I think having the judges' scores counting for double (ie. instead of 17pts, 16pts, 15pts, it was 34pts, 32pts, 30pts... this time around) may be a little bit unfairly balanced in favour of the judges, and leave us open to scrutiny and accusations of bias/nepotism. I will have a tinker with the judges as usual because it's healthy to keep the panel a little bit different each time, but I think I'm pretty fair in hiring them because I go for people who either:

- Know the game well and know what makes a "good song"
- Have a moderator status and therefore a little bit of authority / are inherently impartial
- Represent a section of the forum that is otherwise not too closely affiliated with the majority of the song subjects (ie. as always, most songs are about chat-and-games in-jokes, or mods/bans, and can read as gobbledegook to non-posters of that area)
- Are just generally pretty fair and mature and can look at the game objectively as a celebration of creativity, effort and humour/musical prowess.

So I think keeping the "Jury vote" the same is fine (ie. all participants can vote with 12pts, 10pts, 8pts, 7pts, 6pts, 5pts, 4pts, 3pts, 2pts and 1pt for their ten favourite songs in order, but not for themselves) and any non-participating member can vote in the exact same format. Judges of course have to rank themselves somewhere otherwise are at a disadvantage - and I don't think any judge put themselves higher than 4th this time around? I put myself 8th. Midway is usually fine although I'm happy with this shady area being replaced by a "each judge gets [10pts]* and then takes themselves out of the ranking" scenario.
*[10pts] here would be a middle-mark for a Eurovision that has 20 songs submitted, so bang in the middle.

With 10 judges I think having singular points helps both keep the results closer/less predictable, and prevents us from having too strong of an influence on the final results. For example, if you removed the judges and left it to the players this time around it would've resulted in:

1) Shaun
2) LukeB
3) MB

Add in the judges and LukeB and I disappear from the top 3 entirely :laugh:

I think, finally, and sorry I know this is going to be a long post but I want to address everything, making sure the voting remains open for a lot longer is also imperative and saves us from the stress of trying to get 20+ votes in under 24 hours. So I am toying with the idea of having Josiah host the live show on, say, a Friday, and then having the results show on the following Monday. That gives everyone the whole weekend to catch up, read everything thoroughly and not just skim-read quickly to get a vote in, and also gives us more time to prepare the results :p Like I say, this is just an idea and all of these things I've suggested are just ideas I'm happy to discuss with regular players in here.