..and that’s a great Christmas story for children as well, Armand...just in the same way that I don’t think that schools should exclude stories that have religious attachments, I also don’t think that they should exclude those that haven’t if they also relay a very good Christmas message to children just because they’re not based on the birth of Christ....I also think that it’s ok to put a ‘modern touch’ on the Nativity as well..we did that one year and had the Three Kings as XFactor judges...

First of all last time I checked this was a Christian Country so Christianity is our main religion and the second most important Christian date is Christmas. It is the most celebrated of all our christian religious dates.

We all know the origins of the date and that Christ was actually born in July and that December is a pagan festival, so what for generations Christmas has been celebrated on 25th and the Nativity is the main focal point of that celebration.

So to see this creeping dumbing down of Christmas in the last 20 years is very sad, with all references to Christ , Mary, Joseph , Nativity slowly replaced with non descript "Happy Holidays" is extremely sad.

I don't know why this is happening probably a combination of the creeping Americanisation of Christmas and the spineless PC brigade worried about offending other faiths.... Wtf !!!

Try going to Saudi Arabia and demanding they tone down their celebration of Eid and you will find your head departing your shoulders quicker than you can say "Allahu Akbar"

I wish our elected representatives would grow a pair and stand firm on all our main religious festivals and allow us to celebrate them with pride.



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:clap1:

:clap1::clap1::clap1: Brilliantly put Paul.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: Well said as usual Nedusa.

:cheer::cheer::cheer:




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absolutely spot on to a tee..........please run for office:cheer2:

Wow, that's really sad and quite a shame.

I also work in a C of E school, and there are a few Muslim children there.

Thankfully, all of their parents are completely understanding and are more than happy for them to take part in the Christmas nativities. Although one thing, (which upsets me greatly) is that the mothers have mentioned how they worry about taking pictures, as some people in their family and back home (I think it was Pakistan... not too sure though) would be very angry and disgusted.

It's sad, because I get on with these mothers very well. I have said it before on here, but I have never met a nasty Muslim or Asian. But I will be honest, I've heard plenty of scary things from other members of staff in the school.

I do think that we will eventually be asked to not do the nativity anymore, for quite a few reasons.

I personally don't really have an opinion on it. If it is a school of a different religion, I have absolutely no problem with them not doing a Christmas nativity.

But I don't think the nativity should be banned, nor do I think it should be forced... It should be up to the school.

Sorry for the rambling, I just wanted to say my opinion!

You ain't rambling Caitlin, you're being balanced and making sense. I'm not ranting about Muslims per se, I have repeatedly stressed that ordinary Muslims are no more part of ISIS/Al Qaeda terrorism than were ordinary Irish Catholics and Protestants part of the IRA troubles years ago. They are also not responsible for the covert usurpation which is definitely occurring here in the UK, and has been, dating back to the early 1960's.

It is the 'wolves in sheep's clothing' Islamic extremists who are behind what's happening here. They infiltrate organisations as diverse as the BBC and Channel 4 & 5, newspapers, Councils, Police, Medical and School Authorities, and all departments of our Civil Service - the real power in this country irrespective of which Government is in 'phoney' power.

Once in, they work their way into positions of power. These are 5th columnists, working from within, and in no hurry, but every bit as dangerous as their Islamic Fundamentalist terrorist brothers waging war and wreaking carnage without, because their objective is the same - subjugation and usurpation of the UK as part of their self proclaimed mission to ultimately render the entire world Islamic. They are preparing the way by stealth.

I don't care who thinks I have a bolt loose, I have moved in certain circles and witnessed certain conversations for over a decade, and know the truth.

"It's B.S.". "He's seen too many films". "It can't happen". - Well, it is happening, but is so diversely spread, and done so subtly with 'baby steps', that no one collates it all, or thinks and analyses it. And that's exactly why it is happening the way it is.

If people don't like our traditions whether they be religious or not,they should stay away and stop trying to change what is quintessentially British tradition,I like the nativity and so do the kids.leave it alone ffs,find something else to whinge about.

Oh no, please dont think I was accusing you of muslim hating! Cause I definitely wasn't, lol...

but no, I do agree with your post... and this one. It's true and its a shame people don't realise it.

all this 'we must be very careful what we say!!' crap actually does more damage than good.

Brilliant post Kaz.

Nicely put Kaz, the word whinging is very apt.

Well ,Kirk the state of the world and certain groups are whinging about kids in a play,pfft,idiots why should England tremble Eh?

:laugh: Isn't it just:wavey:

10,000 Helium filled balloons in one room are a hell of a lot of balloons. They can’t be missed, ignored, or denied, but 10,000 Helium filled balloons let loose outside, will soon separate, float apart, disappear into the vast, vast endless sky.

Over the course of a few weeks, you might spot one or even two floating on high. A few months later, you might spot another. You may ponder about these for a few seconds, but then dismiss it from your mind as you ‘get on’ with all the increasingly demanding complexities of living life.

The probability is, that if another balloon floated into view some weeks later, you would pay no attention to it at all, or even if you did – it would be a mere fleeting recognition which your mind would dismiss in a nano second.

However, the fact that you can no longer see them, or fail to acknowledge them, does not mean that they never existed, or that they do not still exist. Nor does it mean that even though now separated by time and space, these balloons are not forever linked by their common origins.

Such is the situation with the Islamic Fundamentalist ‘Fifth Columnists’ who are slowly, but oh so surely destroying the UK from within as they march relentlessly towards their goal of conquering every non Islamic country in the world and ‘reinstating’ Islam in them.

The evidence for this is increasingly prolific and irrefutable, but like the airborne balloons in my analogy, seen in isolation and separated by space and time, that evidence is trivialised, dismissed, and ignored, and the link is not recognised.

I have formulated my 'Islamic Fifth Columnist' theories over the past 15 years largely due to my own experiences, observations and intuition.

Yesterday, however, a very valued friend sent me a couple of links about a woman who I had never previously heard of, and I am so grateful that she did, because this woman's Facts echo my theories, and she articulates those facts with more eloquence, intelligence and skill than I am capable of.

I am now busily reading everything I can about this remarkable woman, but before I post those links, I wish to abridge what she says as a comparator for what I genuinely believe is occurring right now in the UK.

LEBANON.

From gaining independence in 1943, Lebanon was the only Middle Eastern country to boast ‘Western Democratic’ values. Christianity was the majority national religion. It was the Financial and Banking capital of the Middle East and – without the benefit of oil – had one of the strongest economies, and its Universities were the envy of even Western Democratic countries.

In 1965 National Geographic magazine featured Lebanon on its front cover under the legend; ‘Eden of The East’, whilst other Western countries fondly dubbed Lebanon, ‘The Paris of the East’.

A lot like our little ‘Kingdom’ then eh? More than you think:

Because – like the UK - Lebanon was also a ‘forward thinking’, tolerant, liberated country which practiced multiculturism and had an ‘open door’ immigration policy which welcomed all Nationalities, Colours and Religions, and -- just as with the UK –- Muslims were the great majority of all ‘refugee’ immigrants to the Lebanon.

Also like the UK, Muslims from all around the world enrolled at Lebanon’s Universities to secure education of the highest kind.

Look what happened:

Like in the UK now, this influx of predominantly Muslim ‘asylum seekers’ and ‘refugee’ immigrants into Lebanon, used the freedom of the very Western democratic system which embraced and welcomed them, to covertly plot with Muslims already in Lebanon to conquer Lebanon from within, usurp its indigenous people, and build terror bases where they conspired to destroy Israel, and eventually declared jihad on all Christians.

As with the UK now, and in my ‘Helium Balloon’ analogy, this initially covert ‘plot’ first manifested itself in ‘baby steps’ – insignificant little displays of ‘raised voices’ of protest against the existing ‘socio political’ and religious status quo of the host country – ‘not much to worry about’.

As with UK now however, as the Islamic population grew and as the indigenous Lebanese allowed one concession after another, these Islamic conspirators started becoming more openly aggressive and intolerant in demanding more rights beneficial to Islam at the cost to Lebanon’s Western type democracy and its traditional Judeo Christian religion.

As with the UK now, the ‘Writing’ was well and truly ‘On The Wall’ for the Lebanese to read, but they did not recognise it, or ignored it, and in just a few short years, by the late 1960’s early 1970’s Islam became the Majority National Religion in Lebanon, and Christianity became the Minority.

Look at Lebanon now, follow these two links, listen, analyse, then think about what has been happening in the UK over the past decades, and then tell me I'm a crank, but finally - a few of those 10,000 balloons:

1) Muhammad has become the most popular name for newborn boys in the UK, according to website BabyCentre.

2) According to the UK 2011 Census: the number of Christians in the UK has fallen from 37 million to 33 million since 2001. Christians now make up only 59 percent of the population, as opposed to 72 percent in 2001.

3) The same census reveals: the number of Muslims has risen from 1.5 million to 2.7 million - or 5 percent of the population.
4) From the same census: Islam is set to become the dominant religion in Britain within the next generation.

5) There are already 85 Islamic Sharia Courts in Britain operating parallel to the British Judiciary System.

6) Nationwide, the number of Muslims sitting on Local Councils is increasing at unprecedented rates. In London alone the numbers almost doubled from 2002 to 2006 and have continued growing since.

" The devil's finest trick is to persuade you that he does not exist." ― Charles Baudelaire.

"A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself within" – Will Durant.

Follow these links to the excellent Brigitte Gabriel, and make up your own minds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFO1AtjoUoo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s

I think we were once a Christian country about 50 years ago but to say that now is nonsense. 4 % of us go to church and churches are shutting faster than pubs.

Until, the head count says differently, this is still a Christian country whether church attendances have dropped or not - I am a Christian but shun church.

There were hardly any Muslims here 50 years ago either - well not fundamentalist ones openly preaching hate, intimidating passers by, enslaving women, and murdering civilians and off duty soldiers on our streets.

The UK census 2011 also sees non-religiosity dramatically on the rise.

Pleasing.

Yes Kyle, pleasing to already committed non-religious people and that's fair comment, but the rise in such is a negligible factor in the fall of Christianity and rise of Islam.

I genuinely do not fear British Atheists just as I don't fear Jews or even Wiccans, because I've never heard of any currently trying to subjugate the Western Democracies by terrorism, bombings and beheadings.

We are a civilised moderate lot. Too much so in my book.

Excellent post Kirk.............sometimes these things need saying as I agree I have seen and am still witnessing a slow creeping Islamification of not just the UK but Europe in general.

This is why I have grave reservations about calling Islam a peaceful religion, in my mind it is a cult (albeit a very large one) that seeks to change people's view towards it's own using any and all means available including violence.

It is indeed about time we brought the debate out into the open and asked senior Islamic leaders to redefine their faith and declare it's limits. They need to speak out against the extremist ideaologies and declare violent Jihad as terrorism pure and simple.

We certainly need to be able to have this long overdue debate before we all descend into religious hatred and violent confrontation.




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Your post is excellent. Thanks Nedusa, and I'm glad - really glad - that you have seen the same 'creeping Islamification' (as you so excellently put it) as I have.

I just hope we can open a few other people's eyes.

It's always hilarious how people get hysterical saying that Islam is on the rise and it's gonna take over. Pray do tell how is that gonna happen? Islam is a minority when it comes to religions in the UK and they are dwarfed by people who identify as Christians, agnostics and Atheists among others and more people are taking on agnostic and atheist views each year. How exactly is Islam going to 'take over' when the media runs anti-Islam stories every day and parties like UKIP are slowly gaining power? We are a democracy and, in the current political climate, the chances of a radical Muslim gaining enough power to affect the UK in some lasting way are slim to none.

Also, have you ever considered that most Muslims probably don't want an islamic state? Why do you think Islamic immigrants come here? I bet one of the big reasons is because they're trying to escape countries ruled by Shariah Law and the abuses that come with it.

It's also incredibly patronising and ignorant to say that we can be moderate and civilised yet you're painting millions of people with the same extremist brush. All religions have their moderates and extremists. It's dumb to say that one is worse than another when they are all both equally good and bad.

[QUOTE=Dezzy;7406031]

"It's always hilarious how people get hysterical saying that Islam is on the rise and it's gonna take over. Pray do tell how is that gonna happen? Islam is a minority when it comes to religions in the UK and they are dwarfed by people who identify as Christians, agnostics and Atheists among others and more people are taking on agnostic and atheist views each year."

You obviously do not read the posts on the threads which you keep playing 'Hokey Cokey' on and leaping in and out of to post criticisms, because if you did, you would have the answers to all your questions before you posed them.

As my lengthy post on Lebanon, and the given links, have already explained - had you read them - being in a minority does not preclude that minority in achieving its evil objective, if that minority is proactive, intolerant, immoral and malignant, and the majority is passive, tolerant, moral, benign, and apathetic or unwary.

Further: I have already answered your points about 'Agnostics and atheists' in my response to Kyle which precedes your response and which I would presume you had read prior to posting. But I will reiterate;

The given negligible rise in Atheism in the context of my post's subject matter, does not account for the fall in Christianity and the rise in Islam.

"How exactly is Islam going to 'take over' when the media runs anti-Islam stories every day and parties like UKIP are slowly gaining power?


Again, you cannot have read my posts or followed the links and watched the two excellent videos.

Most ordinary people are much too busy with trying to deal with life to take much notice of 'the media' running 'anti-Islam stories every day', and most, certainly do not consciously 'link' the reality behind such 'stories' anyway - as in my 'Helium balloon' analogy. They are also likely to suffer from becoming 'acclimatised' to a degree,about 'over exposure' to news regarding Islamic Terrorism.

When the first British soldier was killed in Ireland during the 'IRA troubles', it was so shocking and so outraged the 'moral majority' that the entire front pages of every newspaper was dedicated to the story of it. Less than one year later, the 'murder' of six soldiers in Ireland was relegated to a few columns on the inside pages.

"We are a democracy and, in the current political climate, the chances of a radical Muslim gaining enough power to affect the UK in some lasting way are slim to none."

You are stating opinion as fact when all the real facts - had you read them - would preclude you posting that opinion.

Did we have 85 Islamic Sharia Law courts in the UK before? - No.
Were innocent off duty soldiers being slaughtered by Islamic murdering bastards on the streets of Britain before? - No.
Did we have innocent non-Muslim passers by openly accosted and threatened by contemptuous Islamic Fundamentalist thugs before? -No.
Were we involved in the tremendous financial cost and trouble of having our National Security Service on 'Red Alert' because of increased anti-British activities by British based Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorists before - No.

"radical Muslims" have already "gained enough power to affect the UK in some lasting way", never mind the chances of doing so according to you, being "slim to none.". Unless you think everything is not going to get worse and it will all disappear, and our way of life, traditions and freedoms, will miraculously revert back to the halcyon days of yesteryear?

"Also, have you ever considered that most Muslims probably don't want an islamic state? Why do you think Islamic immigrants come here? I bet one of the big reasons is because they're trying to escape countries ruled by Shariah Law and the abuses that come with it."

I have stated already many times, that it is not the ordinary Muslims in Britain who I am referring to, and you are right - ordinary peaceful, moderate Muslims do not identify with these Islamic Fundamentalist terrorists, and are as terrified of them, and as 'at risk from their extreme Islamic intolerance, as non-Muslims are. These bastards are slaughtering moderate Muslims in the Middle East as I type.

My point is; that being decent and moderate, and not being part of the Islamic Fundamentalists I refer to, ordinary Muslims too are not aware of any 'Fifth Columnist' infiltration of Britain, or the 'Muslim Brotherhoods' 1928 Plan for World domination and the 'restoration' of Islam to every non-Muslim country on Earth, by stealth from within, and Force from without.

So as for "escaping countries ruled by Shariah Law and the abuses that come with it." If we do not wake up and recognise just what is happening in our country there will be very soon be nowhere for anyone to escape to that isn't ruled by Sharia Law.

"It's also incredibly patronising and ignorant to say that we can be moderate and civilised yet you're painting millions of people with the same extremist brush. All religions have their moderates and extremists. It's dumb to say that one is worse than another when they are all both equally good and bad."

With respect, it is you who is being incredibly patronising and ignorant, because you quite evidently have not read my previous posts on this thread or any of my other posts on other threads such as 'The Meaning of Life' because if you had, you would not now be wrongfully accusing me of 'painting millions of people with the same extremist brush', as I take great pains in those posts to make clear that I am not referring to all Muslims - the great majority of whom are God-fearing, peace-loving decent humans - but to inhuman, evil Islamic Fundamentalists.

Finally, I take great exception to your statement that: "All religions have their moderates and extremists. It's dumb to say that one is worse than another when they are all both equally good and bad." because - unless you are meaning ancient historical sense - are you really and seriously implying that these evil scumbag Jihadists who behead innocent civilians among other atrocities, have any counterpart among the extremists of modern Christianity and Judaism? Or indeed any other religion?

Brilliant post:clap1:
I have seen both those vids before,She speaks the truth.

There is definately a section of the Muslim community who's aim is to Islamify western country's and create Islamic states all over the world.They want to enforce Sharia law in our country.There was a documentary a while back(possibly Panorama) which went under cover in a Mosque which had a direct video link to an Islamic fundamentalist on a big screen who was preaching to the Muslims who attended.He was explaining how they need to infiltrate western country's and when the time is right to "rise up" and take power and how the infidels(non believers) should be treated as the enemy.These people need to be taken seriously because the threat is very real.As Brigitte Gabriel says,In all of the great attrocities of history "The peaceful majority were irrelevant"