A lot of armament factories from the Soviet era are based in eastern Ukraine, it was already a region littered with weapons. If the Ukrainian government was toppled by the 'people', it was the people of Kiev who don't represent the whole of the country, and it can't be denied either way that the toppling was done in quite shady circumstances.

"if Russia wanted to invade and own Ukraine, it would already be done, and Ukraine would have no power to stop it."

I disagree. Russia is fully aware that a full on invasion would undoubtedly bring about a world war. Both Russia and the west are being guarded and rightly so.

I agree, my point more was replying to the 'USA could conquer Russia if they wanted to' argument, as though the fact they haven't means they are not responsible for any provocation of inflaming of tensions

ukraine's army stuff, is top of the range, but is old and many of the tanks and other armour lay rotten after they had no money to keep them running, last time those tanks in ukraine had an upgrade, was back in the 80s,

Why are you quoting me and implying that I've suggested America wants to conquer Russia? It doesn't, it just wants to neuter it and block it from having as much influence as America has in global affairs, seeing as Russia and China can gang up and veto American led decision making in UN affairs. Russia was on the verge of being a failed state in the 90s; but under Putin has restored much of its former glory because he's an A+ statesman who knows how to manoeuvre politically to get what he wants. I wrote my dissertation about Russia's use of natural resources in the political arena; the US really isn't helping Europe to stand up to Russia, the sheer level of neglect in Poland and the Baltic States alone is enough proof of that.

russia has the largest amounts of rare and earth materials, on the planet, even huge mines of jem stones to gold and sliver, putin knows about the energy war, america want's to start ww3, for the oil and gas, and yes they are after the jems and gold, aswell, like all empires, they rise and fall, america is no different,

I agree...............it makes me shudder to think the US actually wants to ultimately provoke Russia into all out War !!

I mean wtf.......a country who have been invaded so many times in their history, who lost over 20 million of its citizens in two World Wars, a Country who ultimately became the major part of a Superpower and as a consequence has thousands upon thousands of Nuclear Misslies capable of striking pretty much anywhere in the World.

With the latest in Supersonic Cruise Missles and ALBM,SLBM this really is not a Country you would want to willingly provoke...

Yet the US/Nato seems intent on pushing Ukraine to try and take back areas of Eastern Ukraine by force , force that equates to shelling and killing many innocent russian speaking Ukrainians. Clearly Russia will not stand idly by and allow this to happen. These people are terrified and just want to be protected.

They know if Russia deserted them the so called "Govt" in Kiev would run riot across that whole area , you would see blood letting on a massive scale with thousands upon thousands of Ukrainians dispossessed with huge numbers of refugees, basically a humanitarian disaster.

So No. Russia won't turn its back on its fellow Countrymen and Putin will try and provide help covertly, yes everyone knows this, BUT Putin does not want a conflict with the West for obvious reasons.

So why the Hell does the West want a conflict with Putin (Russia)

That is a question many intelligent people are desparately trying to answer, maybe they think Putin will back down.

Well ....he won't not when pushed around in his own backyard like this, I'm afraid he will have no choice but to stand and fight, and we all know where that will lead..






.

The level of Putin sympathy around here is truly astounding. JOB WELL DONE RUSSIA TODAY! you deserve a raise!

I wonder how much sympathy the same people defending him on this forum would have for him if he was THEIR leader.

If tomorrow Putin was the leader of the UK, I think a lot of people here would be singing a different tune.

It's just like the people that defend Cuba's Castro, they love to sing his praises, but if any leader of the UK ever behaved that way or made the same decisions, they'd be screaming bloody murder.

Who's sympathizing with him on here? You would have to be a pretty sick ****er to do that.

But I do agree with people on the fact that both America and Russia do tend to antagonize each other throughout their recent history.

:thumbs:
Russian soldiers have no business being in Ukraine and so called 'rebels' are still pushing to take more towns even though there's supposed to be a ceasefire.
It's not NATO soldiers on the ground there it's Russian troops and weaponary.Putin will listen to nobody and carry on lying and keep pushing further into Ukraine trying to take more towns.As is happening right this minute.

You may well be right, but they would never admit to being Russian Soldiers, maybe a Novorussian or Pro Russian brigade formed to try and push back the fascist murdering Non Russian, Russia hating Ukrainians who with the help of the west and an illegal coup here and some covert arms there think they can commit ethnic cleansing in Eastern Ukraine.

Well they cannot, and the US and it's lackeys are realising this now. They didn't force Russia out of the Crimea and they won't force Eastern UIkrainians out of their homelands either.

The West has already lost this war or proxy war, it cannot push Russia back without major escalation and a massive influx of heavy weaponry. this would frighten the crap out of most Western European Countries and they would fear for all out War fought in Europe (sounds familiar ??).

So no I think even the US will know it needs Russia's support on a wide range of other Global geopolitical issues so I don't think even they will push too far.

They might consider trying to split the Country as I'm sure Russia would prefer to keep it intact.

Either way it could soon be squeaky bum time soon....





:shocked:

Remember a country called Georgia, with a pro puppet of the west called, Mikheil saakashvili, he attacked Russian peace keepers, in south Ossetia, he was caught on tv, eating his tie, when he thought the west would help him, America want's a puppet leader in Moscow, there is no way the people of Russia want to go back to the days of a boris yeltsin regime, the leaders in kiev, are nothing but a bunch of thugs who will bully the people of Ukraine, giving them a false dream,

That is exactly what they are, an unelected fascist junta who are taking their orders from their paymasters who live nowhere near Ukraine.

These thugs are happy to attack their own countrymen in the East using all means at their disposal. They have lied to the masses in the west of Ukraine but Russia is well aware of the situation and will never allow them free reign in the East of Ukraine .

Fact is they are losing the war now and their time is almost up , in fact last night it was reported that president poroschenko and his family have left Ukraine because of fears for their safety.

Game over I think.