Great post Joey, i would like to see some actual figures as well instead of the sweeping generalisations made, similar to all immigrants being on benefits when it has been proven that most immigrants pay much more into the system than they take out ..a bit off topic I know but just for comparison

:wavey: hello GG not seen you post in a while,nice to have you back.

Thanks :love:

It would be better to work through any issues you have in a rehabilitation facility it helped you...
But that isn't financially viable for the thousands that need it, so what's the alternative for them.. is it this, make the poor poorer so they will suddenly realise they need to get clean and lean?

Living on benefits is not an option now, if you're on jobseekers your benefits are restricted if you don't actively seek work, and if you don't have a job within a specified timescale a job will be found for you whether you are fat or thin.

So what here is under threat? My guess is it's accessing disability benefit for weight related issues.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: Don't give up Kaz - that's the mistake I nearly made.

Every time someone mentions on here, the reality that SOME fraudently claim benefits who could work but don't want to, or SOME fraudently claim benefits who are working 'on the side', or that SOME immigrants are terrorist sympathisers, or that SOME Muslims are fundamentalist terrorists, the thread is immediately tattoed by Left Wing rebuttal posts which IGNORE what has actually been said in the original post, and false premises are then worked from which suggest that what has been said in the original post is that ALL claimants are fraudulent, or ALL immigrants are terrorist sympathisers, or that ALL Muslims are terrorists.

This hysterical defensiveness is ridiculous.

I personally KNOW at least 8 disgustingly obese women - all in their late 20's, and all who have from 2 to 5 children (most to different non-present, 'baby-daddies') and all who claim benefits far in excess of the average weekly working wage, and all who are seldom seen without guzzling down Big Mac meals, Fish and Chips or huge '99 ice cream cones/chocolate bars.

I personally know dozens of people who claim benefits who are fit and well but who do not work and don't want to work. Some of these are over 50 years old and HAVE NEVER HAD ONE JOB IN THEIR LIVES. Another is on Mobility for life yet plays football for a local team and trains 3 times a week at Bannatyne's Gym.

Yet another was awarded mobility for life because his bad back debilitated him, then the government paid thousands of pounds for him to enroll on a HGV course and he is now employed as a long distance lorry driver but still receives his mobility allowance????

One woman - 38 years old - has 12 children -- yes 12 children (to many different 'baby-daddies') -- and receives over £900 per week, not including Housing Benefits. She is at least a size 24 and regularly traipses around town with some of her friends and a couple of pushchairs, with other of her kids walking along sides, and she is always loaded up with carrier bags of new clothes and always munching on burgers or KFc's. And no, she has never worked from having her first baby at 15 years old.

I could go on and on, but suffice to say that these twats DO exist, and although they are in a minority, it is still a very sizeable minority which is costing the tax-payer multi-millions of pounds per year.

I will also repeat - that the more of these lazy fecking leeches there are that are barred from benefits, then the more money there is in the system to PROPERLY alleviate the suffering of GENUINE claimants.

THIS IS NOT AN ATTACK ON THE SYSTEM JUST ON THOSE WHO MILK IT AND ABUSE IT.

Back to obese people;

Obesity through genuine physiological or medical reasons aside, it is naive to PRESUME that the rest of obese people need educating on healthy eating habits, because most of them know that gorging on takeaways 6 nights a week, drinking copious amounts of alcohol and fizzy drinks, and stuffing burgers, multiple bags of crisps, and chocolates and ice creams down their gullets, and not taking any exercise at all by WORKING OUT or even just WORKING, will result in becoming a BEACHED WHALE with heath problems galore.

Here's Dr Kirk's way to lose weight and get healthier:

1) FECKING EAT LESS.
2) FECKING START ACTUALLY COOKING.
2) FECKING GET A JOB.
3) FECKING THROW AWAY THE TV.
4) FECKING THROW AWAY THE COUCH.

Simple 'innit.

Can you really see that happening? The benefits will be stopped and the people forgotten about

The problem with saying people have to get help for stuff like this (which tbf, they should be getting anyway) is that the help isn't there...and the government dont actually care about helping people, just saving cash. It would cost so much to put all drug addicts etc into rehab. It just would never happen.

If there was a proper system in place it would be fine. As to get the amount of help required, more staff would have to be taken on, more buildings built etc, so a lot of people would get work out of it all too, along with people getting help out of the whole thing. But this is not what IDS and co would do. Stopping more peoples income is the only thing on their minds.

Not getting into the rest of your post, but this part in particular is actually impossible. If you do not know why, then you don't know what you are talking about at all :)

She may brag (god knows why mind) about receiving that much, but she wont actually...

Well please enlighten me just why it's impossible Vicky please. I do not lie. I have direct knowledge about this actual woman but cannot breach Data Protection law.

And I most certainly DO KNOW what I am talking about - from direct, personal experience and involvement in some cases.

I am reasonably intelligent, so if I wanted to merely post Right Wing propaganda by fabricating examples I would not have used 12 children and £900 per week - I related such because it is the truth.

I await your response.

Also the problem with these with loads of kids receiving high amount of benefits is..I don't see what can be done about it. I know so many are for a cap on the amount of children you can claim for, and I do see that view, but you are punishing the kids for the parents stupidity by doing that. Besides forcibly sterilizing people on benefits after 2 kids..I dont see a solution that doesn't punish the children, who are innocents in all of this.

Also if we went down the draconian forced sterilization path, we would still have the problem of people who had ****loads of kids when working and then lost their jobs :S

Because there is a cap of £500 per week that anyone can claim in benefits, including housing benefit...

I don't hang around in the same circles you do Kirk and so apart from my sister who has a brain tumour and is enormously over weight through the medication, I don't know any morbidly obese unemployed people. I do though, know quite a few large people who have bank accounts in Geneva who will happily sit round a dinner table taking triple portions whilst advising the rest of us how to evade tax through unscrupulous measures.

Perhaps, instead of weekly documentaries on benefit scroungers we could have, just for a change, a documentary or two on those responsible for the missing billions in tax contributions, because although we all know that benefit scrounging is wrong, its a tiny drop in the ocean compared to the tax that major corporations and individuals are avoiding paying on their profits.

She receives £540 per week in Tax Credits and then ESA and Child Benefits, and it does NOT include Housing Benefits. Incidentally, the Council are currently knocking two semi-detached house through and carrying out £50,000 + worth of conversion works for her to move into.

Hers is not a unique case either.

I wonder how one goes about finding out the income rates of all the people they know aswell. I am curious about the income of some people I know, let me in on your secrets kirk please :o

Again, can't happen. Could have a few years back, but not now.

I love your posts Dem, but these two issues - though both very real - are very different. I am not anti-working class but I believe that it is categorically wrong to tolerate or mitigate 'working class' abuse of the Benefits System just because the 'middle to upper class' tax avoiders and evaders are allowed to 'manipulate' the law under the present system.

I think we all know how corrupt and biased against the 'working classes' certain institutions in this country are, and have been for centuries - including the core of our Judicial and Revenue systems - but it needs concerted effort by the people here to highlight such corruption and protest about it -- Poll Tax style -- until the loop holes are closed and the relevant laws and policies are rendered more equitable through revision.

The irony here is that the issue of Benefit Fraud as outlined, is NOT 'Working Class' crime, but 'NON WORKING CLASS crime perpetuated against the very section of the 'working classes' who most desperately need the money being defrauded.

Oh, and I don't hang around in these circles Dem, but I am not only involved through my work with such 'circles', but also have direct experience and acquired knowledge of the same because I have been a professional landlord for years, and have had thousands of tenants who were/are claimants for the lower value stock in my portfolio.

:clap1:

Exactly

Not true Vicky. The woman in question made certain applications 12 months ago for which she had to provide conclusive proof of her income via the furnishing of checkable information and the supply of original documents which were rigorously scrutinised and validated. j

I'm amazed at how much you know about this woman's personal business Kirk and how do you know it is not a unique case, how many other people do you personally know in similar situations?

Unless she receives DLA for either her or her kids (which you never mentioned...I'm sure you would have as DLA is substantially more than other benefits) it is impossible for her to get around the benefit cap.

I would love to know how you have such indepth knowledge of 'people you know' also. I don't even know my fathers income details, let alone people I just know

I was wondering that too. Perhaps its an accumulation of resentful Chinese whispers!

I said as much in the post above, there is no category of person that Kirk doesn't have intimate knowledge of :laugh:

I have already explained that I cannot due to Data Protection law.

LOL. Ok :D

Possibly...I mean, whats not to be jealous of. 12 kids to bring up..I bet thats a barrel of laughs, I bet she spends all day in the pub too. And has a 70 inch plasma, and goes on 5 holidays a year..etc etc.

If this case is actually true, I think its to be pitied not envied tbh. For it to be true there has to be some element of disability involved (either the mother or the kids..I know esa was mentioned but unless she receives the support component for herself...which is very hard to do without a serious disability then that would not exempt her from the cap.) And I would never resent someone being supported as they/their kids have a disability :S


On the subject of it being more common than people think also...the daily mail couldnt even make it seem common to have so many kids. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...1m-A-YEAR.html
900 people have at least 8 (though this doesn't say WHICH benefits they claim, could be child benefit for some)...will try and find the figure for 12.

I am sick to death of walking past a newspaper stand and some headline jumping out at me about benefit scroungers. I'm fed up prime time television being taken up with documentaries about how the Polish, Rumanian and fat people are ****ing this country over. This is all about creating a division within a class system. Its incitement to hatred and discontent and I believe its a kin to propaganda because its indoctrinating how we think.

Benefit fraud is a tiny problem in this country. Of course it goes on but its nothing like as big as our media portray it to be. The simple solution is, if you think someone is defrauding the system you report them to the appropriate authorities. If you are wrong, nothing will happen. If you're right the fraud is stopped.