They are doing badly in the 18 to 24 year old age band Josh, they would also be doing worse in the 16 and 17 year old band which is why they would be against the vote for 16 year olds.

Everything you list in your post is right,except that really in the last 5 years Nurses have had no real wage increase due to the higher inflation and wage rises kept below it for them too.

Don't worry as to patronising comments that you are naive or young and therefore maybe your views are clouded, I was only 18 when I joined and was a student, and got hammered just for being a student as to my opinions.

You clearly read up on things and have also likely seen things in life you feel and even know to be wrong and that there must be better way as to doing things too.
That comes across in your posts,so carry on.

We hear a lot from this govt; as to what we owe to the future generation but some can only put the young down,so take no notice.
Great post,full of facts again from you.

I was only 14 when I had to help care for my Grandad and then My Grandmother later, at that age,I learned far more about life and how things could and should be than I would from others,all from experience.

Keep your posts going as they are. All my best to you.

Peoples political persuasions and what they consider important in life reflect their own personal circumstances as they go through life.

For example, in the Scottish Independence referendum, the age limit was lowered by the SNP to increase its chances of success, largely, because people in that age group are less concerned about economics and family security. What I'm trying to say is that there will always be an 18-24 year old age group that favours particular beliefs, but it doesn't follow that when the same people are in the 25-30 range they will retain the same beliefs.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...letter-5488071

:hehe:

The sad thing is I wish the NHS was not part of political wrangling,however once this not voted for top down re-organsiation of the NHS was done by Cameron,it has caused massive problems and dismay among NHS staff,

There are Doctors and even Nurses who support the Conservatives,the thread asks if the Conservatives are a threat to the NHS, my answer is the same, only yes this present conservative party and this conservative PM is.

It is true, Conservative PMs and govts; have up to Margaret Thatchers worked well for the NHS in the past, definitely not however this one.

There is a candidate standing in Jeremy Hunt's own seat for the National Health party who want the reforms repealed,so bad were they.

This PM and govt; just will not listen and rides through like a bulldozer the opinions of the the medical staff employed in the NHS.
Dismissing everything and acheiving nothing at all, because in my view he doesn't want to achieve anything, other than bring it to its knees to be snapped up by private organisations who will then be able to run it on a profit basis,not a 'care' basis.

This attempt to 'manipulate' a letter does not surprise me,they will try any trick at all.
I am glad this didn't succeed and hope it means another backlash for this PM and this govt;

I actually feel sorry for Jeremy Hunt, the Health Minister, he has just been made to appear a better face to keep pushing Andrew Lansley's reforms through for this PM.
It is sad the NHS is a political football but until it has all it needs to face whatever is thrown at it and secured so that future reforms are too complex and costly to make, it will be.

It needs a period of stability and more to the point continuity of policy.
Hopefully if Labour are the party leading the next govt; and Andy Burnham is a concensus politician,then with a new Conservative leader perhaps there can be an agreed programme for the NHS with full security on an agreed long term policy as to its future.

That will never happen with this PM and this Conservative govt; however.
They have to be removed,in my strong view, from having anything further to do with the NHS.

but labour reduced nhs funding in wales the tories increased it in england

"The Conservatives pledge an extra £8bn a year for the NHS in England by 2020". Looking forward to seeing how that little snippet of information is going to be handled on here.

The didn't increase it,they ringfenced the original spending budget for the NHS set by the outgoing Labour govt; therefore accepting at that time that Labour was spending enough on the NHS.

They didn't protect that spending however fron inflation costs and also wasted a massive amount of money on a not voted for, unnecessary top down re-organisation of the NHS.

In real truth, with the rise in cost over the years of this govt; the NHS has had likely less than had it been protected as to taking into account the rising costs due to inflation too.

While you are right Labour has made a cut to NHS spending in Wales,you have to take into account this govt; has cut the funding to the Welsh assembly and since most things are already cut to the bone as to services in Wales, some hard decisons had to be made.

All the countries of the UK have some problems with the NHS,in my view,Wales needs more funding from this govt; it doesn't get anywhere near enough and the funding from central govt; has been cut way too much.
Instead of wasting costs on a top down re-organisation of the NHS, this govt; would have been better ensuring it had a reserve set up to cover problems in the NHS across the UK, after all this is still the 'UK' govt; overall.

Rather than wring its hands with glee at the problemswith the NHS in Wales,it should be helping the citizens of Wales by giving more funding to help sort out any problems.
However since they won't even do that in the English NHS that say just about everything about this govt; and the NHS.

Have some conflict in the middle east however and this govt; could find funds a plenty to put in to that as they did for Libya and would have done for Syria too.

Labour found substantial funds for Middle East conflicts too, joey. Labour took us there in the first place. It's a little unfair, I think, throwing that particular argument at this government.

True, but they did so before the 'global' banking/financial crisis and recession hit to be fair too.
I neither agreed with Iraq or Afghanistan anyway to be honest.

However,even when hitting the UK citizens with massive austerity measures, this govt; made almost unlimited funds available for the Libya exercise, and look at the state Libya is now in after the use of all those funds.

AS for this govt's; announcement today as to funding the NHS,this late into an election campaign with no plans to do so before until now, not even when the Chancellor presented his budget a few weeks ago.

I think since I have made it clear endlessly now,(probably to the point of boring everyone to death), I for one, don't believe a word David Cameron says as to the NHS, after his blatant lie as to the top down re-organisation,I think after the election,this increase would be downgraded or would not materialise at all.

I totally don't trust David Cameron as to the NHS, and he has shown he will lie about it to get elected before, so I no way will believe a word he says on it.
Not a chance from me,if I had power,I wouldn't let him or this cabinet he leads,near it ever again as to decisions as to its future.
So although very predictable my response to this likely will be seen,at least I am consistent.

You most certainly are, and I wholeheartedly agree that this looks like a last ditch attempt and a soundbite rather than something that was planned and budgeted for within their policies, it's clearly been shoehorned in at the last minute.
Even the tales of his poor deceased son and their subsequent marital problems appear geared towards some last minute sympathy vote, I hate saying that but that's how it's coming across to me.

I 100% sympathise with the Camerons as to their son, that must have been a really horrible and emotionally testing time for them.
I have no doubt he is a caring husband and a really good Father.

However,it does irk me a little when they use the child as an example as to how they regard the NHS and how wonderful they say it was at the time for their son, which I have no doubt it was too.

Had that resulted in full protection and more investment in the NHS from his govt; once he got power, then that would have been commendable.
Since once getting power he turned the NHS almost upside down with one of the biggest re-organisations of it, well that doesn't inspire me to believe he had much regard for it in reality.

Added to that,I think now of the parents with children who have special needs and disabililties 'now',who since this govt; came to power have seen appointments put back,operations put back and even cancelled,plus lengthy delays as to some relevant treatments too.

Despite all Cameron says in public as to the NHS, he has shown scant regard for those parents,waiting too for their own children to get what they really need from the NHS.

Whatever the Tories do there will always be people who are vehemently against them, even when they're pledging money into the NHS when this thread specifically asks the question, do the Tories pose a threat to the NHS? I'm not sure how anyone can think £8bn into the health service is a bad thing, but of course there are people who do.

Totally Joey, I would have expected a triple lock of protections and a patient centred approach to NHS care of the profoundly disabled at the very least. knowing how vital the protection of this service is for those with long term complex needs in both healthcare and welfare...but no.

With full respect.
I have actually said repeatedly,that the Conservatives up until the later years of Margaret Thatcher nurtured the NHS and worked with it to succeed and were no threat to the NHS as to its founding principles at all.
I think in fairness,I even credited John Major in trying to turn the tide from the disastrous treatment it got from the later years of Thatcher's govt:

This PM, promised, in order to win over voters wavering as to the NHS,that he would not under his govt; have any top down re-organisation of same.
Then he did the biggest one, and it would have actually been bigger had the Lib Dems not insisted in some elements of it being shelved,before they supported what was left, which was more than bad enough.

It is not the Conservatives, people are getting at, I certainly am not, I am getting at this Conservative govt; and this PM,David Cameron who has lied as to his intentions for the NHS already.
So when he says he will put 8 billion,just like that,all of a sudden,like being sprung from a magician's hat,sorry but to me it is as false and misleading in my view as his no top down re-organisation promise.

I know myself,there are loads of Conservative MPs who care about the NHS and many who were even stunned this re-organisation ever took place too.
They need to find their voice and make sure they get rid of this PM and leader,if he is defeated in May, as soon as possible and put in place a man whose word may actually mean something as to the NHS,(I say man only because the only seemingly frontrunner of the female Conservative MPs is the disaster that is Theresa May,who would be possibly even worse than this current PM as leader of the Conservatives).

Then everyone will be able to think that no threat will be posed to the NHS again from the Conservative party.
That is in no way the case for me however with this particular PM and the cabinet he has chosen who are dictating policy too.

It is not the Conservatives overall themselves, who are a threat to the NHS.
It is the far reaching and as yet, unfinished original reforms of former Health secretary Andrew Lansley,which are still being pushed into the NHS, by this PM, who has shown his word is meaningless as to the NHS by his lying about it and his intentions as to it in 2010.

Well said, I don't think anyone would or should cast their vote for how a party has behaved historically, this is a new leader of the Labour party who I feel better represents the values than maybe his predecessors. He has already underlined pledges to maintain and improve services, this it what appeals to voters..not some afterthought blurted out with no supporting figures or policy, that just smacks of pure desperation frankly.

See, I trust David Cameron and the Conservatives to look after the welfare of the UK much more than I do Ed and the labour party. I don't see David Cameron as a liar at all, and I think throwing such emotive slurs in his direction at every possible opportunity smacks of desperation :shrug:

Well we can only judge people on their actions, and as we only have the actions in government of Mr Cameron to go on the suggestion that Mr Millband would be worse is conjecture at this point.
Those who oppose the government we have have had 5yrs to form an opinion, more than enough time to decide whether or not they stick to policy promises or not.

I will never see the Labour party as a threat at all as to the full and founding principles of the NHS free for all at the point of need.

No Labour leader would get away with even thinking of altering the NHS in such a way and were any Labour leader and Labour govt; ever to do so, then that really would be then the end of the Labour party.

Overall to be fair to the Conservatives, they were against the NHS but embraced it after winning power again in 1951 and largely have worked with it since.

Not this PM however and the govt; he leads, I repeat again, I wouldn't trust him to bring a bedpan,let alone trust him the NHS again.
I also think, many who actually took him at his word in 2010 as to no top down re-organisation,also will never trust him again, and they shouldn't either and with really good reason.

Well did he say he and his govt; would not do a top down re-organisation of the NHS repeatedly in the debates and when asked by interviewers in 2010.

Did he less than a year later bring in plans for the biggest re-organsiation of the NHS for ages.
Did that not cause uproar and he was made to stall a while while the Lib Dems had a mini conference and decided they couldn't support all of it.

With the medical profession too overall saying it would lead to problems and be disastrous, did he not then proceed,shelving some of it, with a still massive re-organisation against all opposition to it.

He got votes with that promise,he then did the opposite he said he would and insisted on doing it.
If that is not lying then I don't know what is.

If someone asks me to not to do something and I say I won't, then I go off and do it,I lied to those I said that to.
I wouldn't be expected to be trusted again.

To lie about a massive thing like the NHS as he did, should be enough, and it is for me, to never trust his word again as to it.
I am just surprised anyone would to be quite honest.

Yes,so do I bitontheside,the NHS can't be healed straight away it takes time to make sure everything is in place and I firmly believe Cameron will deliver that,but he wont be rushed just to please people who cannot wait for something to be done properly,it's a shame really as if Labour get in they will either take credit for what Cameron has already started or take us back to square one ,up to our necks in debt and so it goes on,I say let Cameron finish the job he started even if it means we cant get what we want straight away. I trust the NHS in his hands more.

Most of the medical profession and Nurses want all that Cameron has done to be reversed.
Are they all wrong,do they know nothing about the NHS, after all they just work in it, saving lives year in and year out.

He said nothing needed to be done drastically as to the NHS in 2010, backing that up with a promise not to do any major re-organisation of it. which cost loads to do as well which could have been funds better spent on real hands on care.

The work he started you describe, he has chopped it up left,right and centre, the staff are confused, in disarray and even angry at the problems the re-organisation has created for them with so many changes.
They are all wrong to you however are they.

Well you trust him all you like but do you really believe had he said in 2010 he was going to do any re-organisation of the NHS on the scale he did,that he would have got votes.
No way would he have, he conned the voters saying he would not,if you admire that well that is up to you, for me, however,the man is a liar and not to be trusted.

He would have known in 2010 when he made that pledge, that he had every intention doing it once in power.
Which is why he misled the voters and avoided having to ask them to support the re-organisation.

No voter at all voted for this re-organisation, they weren't even given a chance to ,because he said he would not be doing it.
That's deceit on a large scale in my view,and something I for one would never admire in anyone not just a politician.

The NHS didn't need healing Kazanne,it only needed more nurturing,investment and building up, not bringing down as Cameron and his govt; have done this last 5 years.

The NHS back to square one as you call it in 2010, would be a whole lot better than it is now in 2015,that's for sure, and most Doctors, Nurses and other workers in the NHS would tell you that too.
However you believe Saint David over all those.

I will never believe him over all of them, never.
I see some of my family shattered,not only coping with caring for others in the NHS but now hampered more and more in that care by this pointless and unnecessary re-organisation that your precious PM promised would never happen under his govt;

I rather agree with this.


All the leaders can stretch the truth somewhat, but I trust the Tories over the present labour lot anyday.

This is my last post on this thread as it seems pointless to point out what is wrong with a Prime Minister promising not to do something that nobody in effect wants, and to then go and do it with really no authority to,since it wasn't even in his manifesto.

People can ignore all the Doctors,Nurses, and all workers in the NHS who are in the vast majority,who say this govt; with this re-organisation has become a threat to the basic founding principles of the NHS.

I find it incredible that someone who has already deceived and lied to the voters on the NHS can get such acclaim.
I find it incredible in fact that anyone could even want to believe him after his massive and serious broken promise as to the NHS re-organisation.

Thankfully as I go knocking on doors or talk to people in the street, I get a far better response, they can see how wrong he was and also how wrong some of them were to trust him.
Fortunately one of my Cousins who is a Doctor and who is with me, 'advising' me as to what I say out there, bears out the threat factor too from this PM and this govt;.

If anyone can ever point out 'justifiably' where Labour have ever endangered the NHS I would love to see it, if anyone cares to read up about the NHS through the 80s and 90s to 1997,and see the chaos the NHS was in when Labour came to power in 1997,with the NHS starved of Nursing staff and having been massively under invested in.

In 2010, despite the scandals and the problems, it was loads better in 2010 than it was in 1997.
Now we have the medical professionals warning of real dangers to it again,here in 2015, blaming too, in the main, the unwanted,unnecessary and costly re-organisation,that was promised by David Cameron to never be going to take place.

I personally and absolutely despair that any voters would let him off the hook as to that and will blindly allow him to wreck it further.
Not of course take it out of existence but tear it down so he can make it easy for money grabbing private profiteers to march in with a saving plan thanks to his policies and re-organisation towards it.

That is real,5 more years with this PM and this govt; running the NHS and it will be certainly unrecognisable,I predict that.
I am 100% sure this man has a hidden agenda of as near full privatisation of the NHS that is possible.
His words mean nothing to me,just as mine it seems mean nothing to those here who believe he does no wrong and that actually deceiving and lying to voters should bring rewards for him.

My final words are that I believe 100%, taking in the worries and information from those I know who work in the NHS, that under him, (and he will know he likely only has another 5 years,that is possibly why he will not be seeking re-election in 5 years time if he wins this time).
That the NHS will be moving or have already moved to people needing health insurance or wealth to get the better treatments and faster treatments.
I have no doubt as to that at all,being lied to once by him, I would not entertain giving him another go at it.

For those who cannot pay,who cannot afford health insurance,who will likely be those who are the most in need and most vulnerable, they will be left with a basic,cheaper with far longer waiting times for treatment sub standard health programme.
The NHS will likely be gone for good from its founding principles.

Anyone who claims to care about the NHS and ignores the warnings from Doctors, Nurses and all other NHS staff too,yet will trust and believe a man who is already a proven liar as to his intentions for the NHS will be helping him destroy what is a great institution that should be built up not brought down.
People must do what they think,all parties have faults,all parties have at times failed the NHS and had problems occur in it.

In truth,it was caught just in time in 1997,before the real disaster struck.
In just 5 years, with his re-organisation, this PM has taken it almost right back to 1997, priming it for the privatisation takeover I believe is his hidden agenda.
His excuse will be, there was really no other way to fund the NHS or save it without that and it will then be too late to claw it back.

Anyone saying they weren't warned who give him the chance to do more harm to the NHS, will also not be telling the truth.
I have done my bit in saying what I believe, what I know and felt the need to, because I am passionate about the NHS,for my family who work in it and for those who it should always be there for,free at the point of need.

That will, I sincerely believe not be the case if David Cameron and this hardline cabinet, get to finish what they started with this disastrous,costly and wrecking re-organisation.

That is my lot on this thread and this issue on here because I am just getting more angry,knowing what will be coming from this PM.
A PM who has already lied to the voters on the NHS, already brought chaos to it and who dismisses, it seems, like those who support him too, the true warnings and fears of the senior and junior Doctors of the NHS,the Nursing staff and all employed elsewhere in it.

If you want a health service run in the main for profit where those who can pay will get good healthcare,while those who cannot pay get a basic sub standard handout,then vote Conservative.
If that is what you really want the NHS to end up as,that I am now100% sure is what you will get when you help this PM achieve it too.

That's me done,I've said loads on this and I believe I have spoken the truth as to the NHS for it now and the future of it too,which is more than this PM can ever claim to have done as to it.

.

"This is my last post on this thread as it seems pointless to point out what is wrong with a Prime Minister"

You will post again.

What you need to understand
is No one wants Ed as PM
even many in the Labour Party
do not want him.

Its a Staged Election
that American in charge of Ed
stages everything


The public are Sick of it.

Don't ever give up Joey, as you say those who you meet knocking on doors are a better gauge in terms of a quantitative sample of the electorate than here.
There is nothing in this that suggests 8 million of extra spending and of course if it isn't budgeted for you have to ask where is this money coming from, are they robbing peter to pay paul?
Talk is cheap and of course that's all this is, hot air.
http://cdn.budgetresponsibility.inde...8-03-webv1.pdf