...:laugh:..excuse me your honour...I had Tic Tacs, I'm very thoughtful in my sexual assaults, I'm a gentleman....

:joker:

...he's pledged to be a better man tomorrow though.../obviously he didn't mention the day after...

:laugh::nono: Nowhere on any thread on this forum have I ever supported Donald Trump. Neither have I supported Hilary Clinton, but that's another post. :laugh:

All I was doing in my post which you kindly responded to Ammi, was pointing out that this 11 year old 'scoop' is nothing to get worked up about, because - apart from the fact that it has been 'conveniently and selectively edited - it tells us nothing about Trump that we did not already know.

I was not defending Trump in the slightest, when I claimed that his 'Locker Room' banter was typical of most other males at some point in their lives, because it is true. Most men HAVE and DO still indulge in that type of talk about women when they are with other men.

I was not defending Trump in the slightest when I claimed that what he said about 'Stars', ie; rich and powerful and famous men, being able to do anything they want to to (certain) women, ie; the type of American women who move in such men's circles HOPING to bolster their own ambitions to be rich, powerful or famous, or even 'snare' such men and marry them, because it is perfectly true - such men CAN do such things to such WOMEN.

From the Hollywood 'casting couches' of the 20's onwards, to late nights having to "work with the boss in the office dear", such women HAVE always prostituted their principles with rich, powerful, famous men, for personal ambition.

'Snatch' grabbing, is NOTHING out of the ordinary when it comes to what is deemed 'acceptable by such types of people - as disgusting as it may be to some other types of people to actually hear this said.

I strongly believe that sycophantic Billy Bush DID lead Trump on, and DID attempt to curry favour and ingratiate himself by stoking Trump's ego and encouraging him to boast.

And I do believe that Trump was raconteuring and 'playing to the gallery' more than actually and honestly relating his current true M.O. when it comes to women.

I will repeat, that in my opinion, there is NOTHING wrong in a man of any age being ATTRACTED to beautiful women - I am 'past my sell by date' :laugh: but to my dying day, a beautiful woman will ALWAYS take my eye - and Trump is older than me at 70 years old, so whilst he may still be attracted to 'beautiful women', I very much doubt that his sexual appetite has remained the same as it was even 11 years ago, so being 'attracted' and wanting to go further than that attraction, are two very different things.

If you re-read my original post, you will clearly see that I was NOT excusing Trump, I was indicting him, but also indicting Billy Bush.

I was, however, stating the TRUTH as I see it, like I ALWAYS do.

This 'scoop' is 11 years old.
It has been edited.
It tells us nothing new.
Trumps conduct and body language with Arianne is impeccable and in direct contrast to the sexist 'Locker Room' boasting exhibited earlier.

As I said earlier, there are many reasons why Trump should not be President (as there are reasons why Hilary Clinton should not be) but using this video and claiming it as one of them is 'reaching' - In my opinion, of course.

What I find amazing is these high profile figures that have decided not to support him after hearing the video. Who did they think they were voting for prior to its release, a saint? :laugh:

If I was a betting man, I would suggest its release was a pre-planned event to coincide with this next debate, and the withdrawal of support was also pre-planned. Anything else is just not believable.

I totally agree BOTS, and that phrase of yours; 'High profile figures' was one I was searching my ever more decrepit mind for to save me repeating; 'rich, powerful, and famous', but could not find. :laugh:

...my post Kirk was not referencing your general stance on Trump at all in any way as I have no idea what that is... but that this videoed conversation aside, Trump hasn't showed any positive balance in his character/any admirable qualities whatsoever in the views that he has on anything...most of what he says is very worrying....but I do think it's very much something to comment on and be worried further about ..(as is Hilary on her past and present...)...he wasn't discussing females in any kind of appreciative way that could be perceived as 'boyz banter'....he specifically stated that he just started kissing females, he didn't even wait, I think were his exact words..because when you're a star, you can do that/they let you do that/you can do anything you want/you can grab them by the ....(I won't use his terminology...)... that's not banter, that's extremely worrying that, he feel it's ok for those to be his actions with females because he's a 'star'...I wonder if he would think it was ok for other males to feel that they could kiss or grab his daughter without waiting for her consent to do so...because it's basically sexual assault...and that's a specific character of a particular person and not typical in any way of guys or 'guy conversations'...

tbh Ammi I don't even reckon he would care if someone did that to his daughter, he's even made strange comments about her himself

He said he would date his daughter if he could

Agree.

This is not banter, he's describing what he does and how he treats a woman. And now a few women are coming forward saying they got the tic tacs treatment.

CNN’s Erin Burnett Reports Donald Trump Kissed Her Friend Without Consent

:yuk:

Oh I'm not 'taking you to task' or taking any umbrage Ammi - please believe me upon that - I was trying to explain a post which I thought you had misinterpreted.

I totally agree with you that just 'kissing' females without invite or permission, is 'sexual assault' - in OUR normal world, but not in Trump's very different world.

I truly think that Trump - driven by an ego stoked up by Bush - was boasting, but if he was not, then all these women that he 'kissed' without permission MUST have had no objection 'after the fact', otherwise we all would have been treated to decades of 'multi-million pound' lawsuits against Trump for 'Sexual Assault', from hundreds of outraged women.

Either that, or these women ARE the type of which I wrote about, and were all willing to allow Trump to abuse them without taking offence because it suited their agenda.

You allude as to what my stance is on Trump, and I will admit, that my detestation of Clinton is so great, that at the onset of this 'Race For The White House', I preferred Trump.

I did so, because, I liked his 'aura' as a TV star, and somewhat grudgingly admired his ability to 'play' the 'corporate money game' and remain a billionaire despite being bankrupt several times - or some of his various companies were bankrupt, rather. This is how the super-rich are able to place themselves in a 'speculate and win/win, speculate and lose/win' position - because the system is designed to enable them to do just that.

Only poor people suffer if they fail at the fiscal game.

As time as elapsed though, I have seen Trump for what he is, and have lost any admiration I once held for him - both on a personal and professional level.

That said, I am still not moved to ever support Hilary Clinton, so I really do not care who wins the Presidency.

I hope that this clears this up Ammi, I love and respect you too much to ever let any difference of opinion affect our friendship - let alone any misinterpretation by either of us.

I am convinced I just wrote and posted a long response to this! :umm2:

Anyway, err, to now paraphrase the whole thing:

- Not all guys "talk like that" in peer pressure situations. Most YOUNG guys do, but the half decent ones grow out of it by their early 20's.

- I find it irksome that it's being suggested that "all males" are like this because it's flat out bull****.

- His (apparent) "status" is not any sort of excuse, there are plenty of far more successful / famous men than Trump who are not anything like Trump.

- I agree that Hilldawg is a bad candidate too, but she is oldschool bad American politics who will change very little.

- I get that people want "change" and to "rock the boat" of politics.

- I disagree that this should be "by any means necessary"; as I said I think Hillary will be an inconsequential president and the US can afford to seek change from the political status quo at a later date, when a truly good option is available. The idea seems to be "yeah vote Trump coz he's new and different!". Urr. If you don't like your life, cutting off your hands would make for a new and different one, too. Doesn't mean it's a good idea.

I also said some stuff about how Arnie (hardcore republican) has publically denounced Trump and essentially called him out for not being representative of American / Republican values in any way, and lamented the fact that we can't have Arnie as president because he's not a natural-born US citizen :(.

Arnie would make a great prez. I'm not Republican-inclined at all but come on. Arnie! (Also his Republican reasoning seems to be pretty sound, and truly based on the ideal of low governance)

more disturbing than trumps schoolboy drivel is the fact someone filmed this and kept it for 11 years to use it as ammunition just 3 weeks before an election..what a grubby business politics is...this simply encouraging spying, entrapment, phone tapping, under cover cameras etc etc you can guarantee every person on the planet has said something daft, stupid, lewd or inappropriate in their lives but wouldnt necessarily expect it to be secretly filmed and kept in storage but your enemies

Hang on... young women who are exploited, harassed and assaulted in their careers that is their fault?
:/

It matters not how old the clip is he has admitted they were his words nobody put them in his mouth thererfore voters have a choice whether or not to vote for someone who even at that time was no spring chicken, he was 50+!

I doubt 'most' men are that disrespectful, surely it is the circles you move in and the company you keep that determines the calibre of the conversation?

It's assault in any world, if he wants to be president he best get in the real world, not that that is in any way a prospect I would be happy to see.

it was words he never actually did it, at least not in this instance and I hope not in others

[QUOTE=Kizzy;9006347[B]]Hang on... young women who are exploited, harassed and assaulted in their careers that is their fault?
[/B]
Yes, the TYPE of women whom I have identified THREE times now ARE culpable - IF they have allowed Trump or anyone else to do this because it suits their purpose.
:/

It matters not how old the clip is he has admitted they were his words nobody put them in his mouth thererfore voters have a choice whether or not to vote for someone who even at that time was no spring chicken, he was 50+!

I NEVER said that they were not Trumps words, or that someone had put them in his mouth.

I also never said anything about 'Voters choices' either.

So so once again you are 'popping up' to leap on a post of mine to deliberately MISREPRESENT what I have CLEARLY said.

I doubt 'most' men are that disrespectful, surely it is the circles you move in and the company you keep that determines the calibre of the conversation?

I don't CARE what YOU doubt.

I have boxed and 'Circuit Trained' since I was 8 years old, and for decades therefore, have been in a - predominantly 'Working Class' Men's Locker Room environment.

For years, I regularly played Squash Rackets at Linton Squash Club, so for years I have been in a - predominantly 'Middle to Upper Middle Class' Locker Room environment.

In addition being a red-blooded male, of DIFFERENT ages THROUGH the decades, I have often been in the company of other males of widely differing backgrounds.

And I can ASSURE you, that your barbed comment that; "surely it is the circles you move in and the company you keep that determines the calibre of the conversation?" - is a LOAD OF TOSH.

MALE SEXIST BANTER has NOTHING to do with 'class' or background. Nor is it to do with AGE or Decade.

MEN do talk lewdly about women when they are in all male company.

Just as I KNOW that a lot of females talk lewdly about men when they are in all female company.

Not ALL males ALL the time, but unless you have led a very sheltered life, have a very poor grip on the realities of life, or are just seizing an opportunity to 'have a go', then I will educate you.

You have such a vastly greater life experience, I will defer to you.

He's pretty much already shown himself to be all these things this video has proven. What's sad is our politics are in such a state of madness that we even needed this proof to feel objective and healthy enough (aka sane enough) to say he is what he says he is...

I've also noticed that many people in the US public are under the misguided illusion that Donald Trump is actually addressing them (or anyone else) when he speaks to rallies/on television. Except he's addressing Donald Trump (his ego), not the rest of society. Listen to his responses and observe his actions. He's not even remotely aware of you and I as much as he's playing a role in a movie or TV show. Sadly, that's also why some people believe he's only acting and he really doesn't mean those things the way they really appear... just playing to the crowd. :shrug: Right.

The proof has been there all along anytime anyone in the media or people response critically. He usually comes out back some strange response or his answer only works according to some weird logic from an alternative reality that really only exists for Donald Trump. He is not sharing the same thought space much less the same reality as the rest of America... though I now question now if even the same country.

This video is vile and Donald Trump is vile. However, that has been the case since...forever. My most recent memory of him pre-election was his Twitter war with the T-mobile USA CEO (which was epic) when he talked about running for president that pretty much told me everything I needed to know about him. He lives in an alternate reality that is only a reality when there are enough sycophants around to support his reality and wild theories. Evidenced by the amount of retweets, Twitter followers and trolls who would supported him. Outside of that, he has isolated himself from the rest of reality.

Too many people vote for these candidates believing they and these people are so alike, they are their best friend... Conversely, people think they or someone who has a high number of Twitter followers are a somebody and rule the world... therefore they must know so much more than the rest of us... I beg to differ. NPD aka Narcissistic Personality Disorder is seriously real disease and Donald Trump is a great example of the negative, sometimes devastating, impact it can have on other people's lives is not to be joked about.

It was only a matter of a time given the worst narcissists usually dig themselves a grave when the amount of opposition outgrows their ability to backtrack, deflect or otherwise redefine their reality to something other than it really is.

We need to worry though when the sycophants/enthusiastic followers start to outnumber the rest of us logical and otherwise, well-reasoned individuals. As long as that isn't the case, popular culture will be on it's way out and we will have to redefine what it is to be the US. Otherwise, we may be in for more trouble.

Didn't we have an example in a recent BB where Cristian and Danny were being incredibly derogatory talking about the women in the house? It's not nice, but its not an exception either, it does happen a lot in male conversation.

If this is the best they can come up with against him, have you ever thought he might not be as bad as he's being made out?

Whatever happened to the Hillary for prison? It's gone quiet on that front.

Excellent. :hee:

:laugh:

Nope, but Hillary got cheated on, so its fine obviously.