Originally Posted by Brillopad (Post 9441675)

DUC and Sinn Fein are political parties are they not. If there is nothing in the rules that says they cannot form an alliance with a government then to keep bleating on about any of them doing so is just tactics. Take it up with the political rule-makers. I have no doubt in my mind if JC had been in the position of having to form an alliance with Sinn Fein he would have. Other Labour leaders have done so with the DUC.

As for the 'bribe' - the DUC are supporting and working with Government - it is an alliance - therefore they are entitled to some kind of consideration when money is allocated.

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 9441681)

Who?

Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 9441700)

:joker:

Well Sinn Féinn don't even take their Westminster seats so no deals would or could be done with them.
There shouldn't be either.
Equally the DUP should not be in any national UK govt deal either.

They were sounded out by Gordon Brown as to how strong any opposition to Labour they had in 2010.
Their 8 MPs then hardly any relevance to either major party at that time.

This moaning at Sinn Féinn is pointless, they were and are a vital element to the peace process in N Ireland and if they were not part of it,the peace process could not likely even exist

Originally Posted by jet (Post 9441759)

Yes, it was so good of them to agree to give the IRA the heads up to stop killing people when they finally realised it was getting them nowhere and their arms were becoming seriously depleted. They were bribed with amnesty from prosecution and freeing all their murderers from prison, alongside many other benefits. Imagine Labour having to bribe people to stop murdering - yet it was worth it to save many more lives.
ALL the parties were a vital element in the peace process. It could never have worked without everyone agreeing. John Hume, the SDLP leader, got the Nobel Peace Prize, as did David Trimble, the Unionist Party leader for their work. Did any Sinn Fein members? Of course not, and we all know why. Martin McGuiness did an excellent peace time job but it should never be forgotten that as an IRA Chief he ordered the murder of many people.

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 9441681)

Who?

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 9441808)

There were murders on both sides, please don't attempt to suggest unionists were entirely blameless. Blood was spilt, that's a given.

For me there is no entirely right or entirely wrong for either extreme, it had to end and thankfully it did. This deal smacks of exoneration, no wonder it sticks in Sinn Feins craw.

Originally Posted by jet (Post 9441859)

I was replying to Joeys comment about Sinn Fein - you know, the one I bolded.
It's a given that Loyalists weren't entirely blameless surely?

Sinn Fein would have no right to have anything stick in their craw after the bribe they accepted to halt the killings.

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 9441920)

Then what is your issue? Out of interest was there any Operation Demetrius for unionists?...

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 9441745)

How about we reorganise the academic year around the fruit and veg picking seasons?! Kill two birds with one stone...

I was disgusted when Labour introduced tuition fees and I was disgusted when the Tories trebled it. Education should be free.... and it could be made affordable by reducing the number of meaningless degrees on offer.

Originally Posted by jet (Post 9442025)

I have never once seen you outright condemn them or their official political party, Sinn Fein, (and you are not the only one, tbf) yet you love to criticise the DUP. Is that because they don't like Corbyn, the iRA supporter? Or do you sympathise with them like he does?

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 9443392)

Can't speak for Kizzo but I will anyway coz she always agrees with me.

Anyway, my position is this;

I absolutely am "anti-IRA" and I would be utterly horrified of Sinn Fein got a whiff of power in a Westminster coalition. I would have just as many criticisms, I;d be speaking out just as loudly against it.

However... they don't. The DUP are in that position. Sinn Fein is not. So it's a moot point. You seem really focussed on this "Why aren't you criticising Sinn Fein like you are the DUP???". The answer is short and simple; Sinn Fein are not in a Westminster coalition, being wined and dined by the government of the wider UK. If and when they are, if people aren't criticising it, then you will have questions to ask. Until then, it's just simply irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 9439230)

Free education for all, higher entry requirements across the board, if I'm being honest. Get rid of the situation we have now where many jobs that realistically don't require higher education nonetheless have a "must have a-degree-any-degree" checkbox to tick on the application form, and also make it that you need more than two C's and a swimming certificate to get into University.

Have to admit that I am a bit of an academic snob. I believe that getting into University should be based purely on ability, not financial considerations or anything else, and I also quite strongly believe that academia is being dramatically "dumbed down" with being turned into tuitions fees factories where they will accept pretty much anyone in order to harvest their cash, regardless of whether or not they will actually thrive in higher education.

Also, schools need to stop pushing so hard for 18 year olds to go straight to University out of the school gates! SOME people truly have a lath in mind and a course set at 18. A very small number of people. Most would benefit hugely from having a few years to actually figure out what they want to do, rather than heading off to university "because everyone else is". I definitely would have. I trotted along to Uni "because that's what you do next the teachers said so" and swapped degrees three times, never went to classes, ended up dropping out without a degree because I had zero motivation in the first place. Now that I'm older and wiser (the wisest, let's face it) I would absolutely love to go back into academia, but it's not financially or practically realistic, at least not until my wife graduates and is earning.

However I honestly believe that if I hadn't "rushed" to Uni at 18 and had taken 2 or 3 years to actually think about it, I would have gone in much more focused in the first place.

Originally Posted by jet (Post 9444804)

Concerning Kizzy, I never addressed her, she inserted herself into a reply I was giving to Joeys post about the DuP/Sinn Fein and she asked me disingenuous questions that were nothing to do with the coalition either.

I only mentioned them in the first place in this thread because of an accusation Dezzy threw at me.
But tbh I don't feel the need to wait for a good or current reason to criticise Sinn Fein or the IRA, although in this case it was not my intention.

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 9444897)

It's a debate forum I'll insert myself where I see fit, My questions were not disingenuous they were entirely relevant. The 'they started it' response was pretty disingenuous if I'm honest. This is going way off topic now and TS has made a great point to end on, Sinn Fein are not in power here nor should they be, that should be duplicated for the unionists too due to their past affiliations.

Originally Posted by jet (Post 9439913)

In the article -

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed (Post 9444930)

How does that work when 80% of all student debt is never paid anyway?

Originally Posted by Brillopad (Post 9444921)

You just want the Tories out and your precious Corbyn in - get rid of the DUP and you could get May out - is that your plan. No agenda there then.

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 9445364)

Can you stick to the topic and stop attacking my politics please? These hairbrained theories of yours are getting silly.

Originally Posted by Brillopad (Post 9445377)

My hairbrained theories! I think you have cornered the market on conspiracy theories.

Originally Posted by Brillopad (Post 9444945)

Where did you get 80% from - I read it was a third (33%).

Those that benefit the most from no fees will be the high earners (mostly middle class) who would have been in a position to pay their debts.

So the average lower paid worker will be paying their debts for them through taxation whilst those Middle-class high earners get steadily wealthier. Thinking about the many my arse.