...I have to say just reading the DM link about his mum giving his name to the police...he’s been her carer for many years due to her having a brain injury..(..ironic..)..and rarely goes out in the evening or has any personal time...by those words, it seems out of character to do what he did../...to react in that way...but there are still legal consequences to his action/reaction which he has to face now...and it could have been very worse in consequences had her injuries been what they could have been...

...I don’t like the ‘thug’ label he has been given by the media and social sites but the boy did wrong in his reaction...in my opinion...

Actually coming back to this Cherie, it reminded me of this quote from Margaret Atwood (she wrote The Handmaids Tale) -

"Why do men feel threatened by women?" I asked a male friend of mine
"I mean," I said, "men are bigger, most of the time, they can run faster, strangle better, and they have on the average a lot more money and power." "They're afraid women will laugh at them," he said. "Undercut their world view." Then I asked some women students in a quickie poetry seminar I was giving, "Why do women feel threatened by men?" "They're afraid of being killed," they said.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Margaret_Atwood

Great quote :love:

There's no excuse for violence in that situation. If someone is screaming in your face then you remove yourself from the situation. You don't respond by knocking them out, especially when it's not a violent situation to begin with. It would be a different story if she was attacking him but she wasn't.

Again, though, and still, people are confusing "understanding how a situation arises and escalates" with "justifying and making excuses".

No, there is no excuse for his actions, he shouldn't have touched her. Literally no one has said that he was right to hit her, let alone knock her out, under any circumstances.

But the problem is people saying that and then shouting "END OF STORY!" Hands over eyes, fingers in ears, la la la not listening everything about this situation was fine up until the punch was thrown.

But is it the end of the story? Not really. Because whilst in an ideal world, there wouldn't be violent people like this guy out there, there are. And like I said; if people go around confident that the world is as it should be, rather than how it is, they are putting themselves at risk.

"Hilarious" or otherwise, there are young women who do - especially when drunk - think that so long as there are "plenty of people around", they are safe from physical harm in a verbal confrontation. They are not. Evidently so. SHOULD they be safe? Of course, yes, but how much of what should happen in the world actually happens?

Stats from abusive / violent encounters and attacks in different situations are not really relevant here.

We continue to reply to one another in a conversation/debate.

But I'm trying to force my opinion on him but... what's he doing?

You're pathetic. Try adding a post to the discussion instead of commenting on those actually debating the topic as you always do.

Maybe people shouldn't wear jewelry or carry money ever because if they get mugged I can understand how that situation arose, I mean they were wearing an expensive watch, there shouldn't be muggers in this world but there are so people should stop teasing them by having money and expensive stuff on them

You can be passive aggressive and flippant about it all day but it's not really helpful, nor is it a debate? By using the word "teasing" you're still replying as though anyone has tried to defend or justify the guy's actions or has suggested that he shouldn't be arrested and charged with serious assault, which literally no one has.

Also... Yes... Walking around at night flashing a handful of cash or an expensive watch WOULD be potentially dangerous? Advising caution isn't victim blaming.

A pretty basic example; I don't leave cash / my phone / etc. sitting on the counter when I move away from it. Because people can (and do) lean over the counter to steal. It's happened to several people I know. If I left my phone there and it was stolen... Would it be my fault? No. Would it stop the person who stole it from being a thieving scumbag? Would it mean they shouldn't be charged? Or that I wouldn't be angry? No, no and no.

None of that means that precautions shouldn't be taken or that those things won't happen because they shouldn't happen.

Or,

No one walks home alone through a notoriously bad area of town and doing so is pretty reckless. No one starts crying foul when people advise others not to do it, though, do they?

Etc. etc. etc.

So likewise, telling people clearly: if you get into a drunken verbal confrontation, you might get punched in the head.

Is true, valid, and sensible. It's good advice for everyone. It's not excusing violence.

Women get blamed for being victims of crimes, men very very rarely do. Fact.

Also, Mr. patronising, I was being sarcastic not passive aggressive

Get a bloody life instead of trolling this forum for a conversation, no wait argument.

People don't post because if you don't act like a nodding dog you are made to feel like you just killed the family pet.

You ain't interested in anyone's opinion only your own and how your sense of right from wrong is worth more than any one else's.

Stop calling what I can and can't say on here.

Maybe. When it comes to serious crime. For petty crime I don't think "very, very rarely" is accurate at all to be honest and I would need to see some sort of statistic to back that up? People get blamed all the time when it comes to things like theft and minor assault and its not gender specific at all? Called an idiot for leaving a car unlocked / parking in a bad neighbourhood... Told they had it coming when they get hit... Etc... Happens to both males and females all the time? I mean, "talk **** get hit" is an actual saying, and it's not aimed at women or men specifically?

But again what does this have to do with anything that has been said in this thread? Where has anyone said that that's not the case? And for the third time; who is blaming the victim on this thread. Literally EVERYONE has stated that his actions were criminal and were not justified. Any attempt to say that there's victim blaming going on here is just straight up false :shrug:.

(Also, not to be patronising further, but sarcasm *is* passive-aggressive so...)

No it isn't.

Yes the person committing the crime always gets a mention in a - I mean obviously the rapist is bad but........... kind of a way, same story here in this thread

I have always stated on here that we all have a circle of space around us and that anyone 'intimately' stepping into that circle should do so only by 'invitation', otherwise, they are 'invading' that personal space.

I have also stated that when someone invades my personal space in an 'aggressive' manner, then they bear culpability for anything which should subsequently develop.

If I am punched, I will punch back, or if they 'telegraph' the incoming punch I will land mine first.

If the aggressor comes off worse and subsequently suffers a broken jaw or other serious injuries as a consequence of him starting the trouble, then I won't lose any sleep over it.

However, in the case of a woman - no matter how 'mouthy', aggressive, or physically violent she may be - there ARE other, more ACCEPTABLE options of self-defence than punching her; by using my masculine superior strength to take a hold of her arms and 'wrap her up' to stop her throwing punches or clawing, for example.

It is not too difficult either for the average male to restrict her legs at the same time to stop her from kicking.

There certainly ARE times when knocking a female aggressor out CAN be justified; if she is armed with a knife or cosh and attacking you for example - self-preservation of life ALWAYS takes precedence over moral concerns.

However, in the context of the video above, the guy delivering the punches is most definitely Bang-Out-Of-Order.

No matter WHAT transpired prior to what is seen in the video, he could have restrained that girl without actually physically harming her, and though she 'invaded' his personal space in an aggressive manner, she did NOT ever attempt to throw a punch or physically attack him and he cannot claim 'Self-Defence' because his punches were the first and ONLY ones thrown.

In addition, any 'perceived threat' on his part that she 'might have attacked him' is ridiculous given her weight, strength, and size disadvantage and the fact that she is a woman - let alone the fact that NOTHING in that video supports any claim that she was about to start throwing punches at him.

Disgusting and bang-out-of-order.

In my opinion, of course.

Oh dear, seems you need to look up the definition of "debate" love.

Maybe get a life instead of being obsessed with other posters and not actually getting involved in the topic?

The irony of you calling me a troll when it was YOU who came into the thread to get personal. Go away.

Well I suppose it depends on whether or not people are looking for a debate forum, or a forum for tooth-gnashing and outrage. But I thought we already had Facebook for that.

Attempting to understand crime is not victim blaming, is not justifying crime, and is not an attempt to vindicate the perpetrator.

I understand that people find it difficult to comprehend that in situations that anger them on a personal level.

I really don't have anything more to say about it than that.

I have strong feelings on these topics yes, so why would I not comment on these stories and disagree with posts that I disagree with. Incidentally I don't really post on FB stories like this if that was supposed to be some sort passive aggressive dig at me? I don't know.

...in an ideal/perfect world though, TS...no one would get drunk which might contribute to a verbal confrontation happening but it isn’t a perfect world and tha5 having happened in this case for whatever reasons which led to it...?...it’s still not sound reasoning to think punch blows will be laid on you to have you fall to the ground like that ...leaving a wallet or phone lying on the counter or in view like that...then it wouldn’t be a sound and reasoned thing to do...there is a difference...

There's disagreeing and then there's attempting to smear anyone who thinks that there's a discussion to be had with accusations of victim blaming, etc., when there is no evidence at all of victim blaming and in fact multiple (repeatedly ignored) examples of everyone agreeing that what the attacker did was completely wrong.

Its a debate and discussion forum, if people want to just say "oh god this is awful!" and leave it at that, that's fine, but attempting to insist that other people "shouldn't" believe there's further discussion / debate to be had, or that wanting to discuss it further and not just accepting it as "JUST BAD END OF STORY" is somehow a bad person / doesn't care about victims of assault / blatantly implying misogyny... Well... I wouldn't say that's particularly healthy on a debate forum.

So basically you're telling me that because you believe that there is no evidence of victim blaming in this thread that I should just say OK and move on despite me feeling that yes some people on here are victim blaming? That doesn't sound fair. I disagree with you that people aren't victim blaming. That is what I'd like to contribute to this thread

Fair enough, but for it to be worth engaging with you should surely quote and discuss some actual examples of victim blaming instead of just standing on a soapbox shouting "Victim blaming!!"

I'd also add that if you can't do it calmly it isn't worth much anyway, but again, that's personal opinion. There's not a lot of point in debating angry. But then again, there's not a lot of point in debating against someone who is incredulous. So I guess I should take my own advice :shrug:.

People are seriously blaming the woman?

She was defending another girl the guy had been harrasing inside the club. Anyone defending him ask yourself this, had his second punch not resulted in her falling over knocked out how far would this guy have gone?

No.