Exactly, thank you!

refusing to listen to the thoughts of one side of any debate and even worse accusing them falsely of hate crimes and spreading misinformation for having concerns, is a mirror of what Trump tried to achieve in America. Thought for the day.

Again, in what way was it misogyny though?
What I meant is that trans people are not threatening anybody, they're being themselves. How is that against women?
I also agreed with Jessica that calling a transwoman a man is transphobia. Because it is. I'm not the one saying it because I decided so, it's the people that are concerned about it that express that.

Back to the topic, I think that more educating surrounding the toilets or locker rooms can do a long way so that fears are not only misplaced but gone. We hear many stories and feedbacks that unisex toilets have not increased violence for example.
Education is for the better, I believe. Both women rights and trans rights don't have to be put against each other.

people do care about things like that though and its a huge topic because sports is a big deal to so many people around the world its not about being fragile its about giving women equal opportunity to compete with other biological women, why does that make anyone fragile or threatened in anyway? their are differences that you have to accept when it comes to things like that, no good turning a blind eye to it.

I've literally never seen anyone on this forum do what you've said in the bit in bold there; any and all concerns I see are about how it affects single-sex spaces and sex segregated sports, and general concerns about how trans issues interact with already existing gender equality debates.

Valid and important debate issues and attempting to shut them down by accusing people who are interested in these issues of being transphobic, judgemental or uneducated is an extremebly dubious stance, and in my opinion, a quite deliberate shaming tactic or strawman. There's just no place for it in an actually educated debate, or anywhere outside outrage-culture.

In short? Because flippantly poo-pooing away women's concerns as silly, unfounded, illogical or uneducated instead of actually allowing them to be aired and discussed is misogyny as old as the hills... and it's exactly what you're trying to do, repeatedly. You have barely offered up ANY discussion of why the concerns are unfounded, beyond "that's just silly they are unfounded just sit down and accept it".

Not in this thread particularly. You can read some past ones, it's pretty alarming. To me at least.
As for the rest, I think I was pretty clear. I agreed with Jessica and that was it. And again, I was advocating for people to more open-minded and know more about transgender people so that this kind of fears and discrimination can finally be put to rest and live together in a more accepting society.

But you can take it out on me if you want, when I was just saying that trans rights and womens rights don't have to be against each other. In the end it's social justice.

Transwomen being allowed into female spaces negates women's rights to have single sex spaces, so yeah, in that case their rights are in conflict.

Exactly this.

I literally have a female boxer as my avatar but I don't care about sports. How about you don't tell me what I do and do not care about because you clearly have no idea.

Sports is actually a prime example, apart from 'winning' there are lucrative sponsorship deals that come from being top in your field

also in the USA and TiBB loves the US, Scholarships are handed out to top atheletes

No it doesn't, trans women are women, it's their right to use the same spaces as the rest of us, lots of cis women don't have typical genitalia either, does that mean they are not women? No it doesn't, obviously. Your only issue is that they were assigned male at birth which doesn't affect how much of a woman they are whatsoever.

We agree on that but to me it's pretty clear that to find a way forward that respects everyone's rights as much as possible is the ability to have open, honest, frank and thus very difficult discussions about those rights, where they match up, where they clash, and what can be done to work around those clashes.

There's no part of that that involves sweeping the conversation under the carpet because it's a hard one to have, and there's no way for it to start on a platform that insists one point of view has it all figured out and the other is "uneducated".

.

Yeah but that person needs to realise that there are people out there who when meeting her for the first time may think she is a man. Once told people wont continue to refer to her as him.

How can you reduce the issue of single sex spaces to genitalia without reducing the difference between the sexes entirely to genitalia - thus nullifying the entire concept of gender and thus, in effect, arguing that transgender can't exist? Are you aware that your own thought process is full of incompatible ideas here?

ah yes that awful FENIAN boxer isn't it




just kidding x

Gender is not completely related to genitalia, that's what I am saying.

But you were the only one who brought genitalia into it...

Tbh I never understood why there had to be public urinals, if I was a man I'd hate having to use them as there's literally no personal space . Cubicles are atleast more private . But urinals are too exposed.

I have to wonder - do people who are all for abandoning single-sex spaces aware of what the actual fear is? It's not a fear that genuine transwomen are going to start attacking people at random... it's a fear that men will use it as a loophole to access those spaces disingenuously and with nefarious intent.

As for the argument that "that won't happen" - all I can really say there is that anyone who genuinely believes it won't happen doesn't know the half of this world and probably doesn't want to. It's not a "maybe"... it -will- happen. That's not a judgment on genuine transwomen at all, it's a judgement on men, and an acceptance that there are a seriously sickening number of men out there who will absolutely exploit an opportunity to abuse and harm women. Hard realities but there it is.

all you are doing is having a slash, if another guy is having a slash right next you who cares, just relieved to get it out the system aren't you

SO so far if you disagree I will call you a name (tick)

if you disagree you are transphobic (tick)

if you disagree you are the problem (tick)


and you wonder why this is oft described as toxic?

:umm2:

Again, what I meant was not "women must shut up", to be clear.

I meant, in a more general way, that the feeling on TIBB lately when it comes to transgender people and sexuality topics was more intense than usual and, in a more general way, we should all try to love and accept each other for who they are.
I sometimes struggle with the idea that people can say transpeople are not valid or men or women etc. Just let people be and love each other :love:

Also, and to refer to Jessica's comment, a lot of time transgender people face the "but you're not born a man/woman" which nobody denies (though hormones is a tricky topic also), and a lot of people hide their transphobia behind issues like sports, unisex toilets or locker rooms. Hence the frustration.
It is an education issue also when people who have those fears didn't take the chance to at least talk with the right people (ie transgender people in this case). And before anybody jumps on that, I'm NOT saying TIBB members are transphobic or uneducated, just so we're clear.

I hope it cleared that up for whoever thought I was telling women to act or feel a certain way, because I was not and would never. My comment was targeting transphobic people. Good night to all!

Transwomen are male, women are female - "even" women with intersex conditions, funnily enough.

Sex isn't assigned at birth; it's acknowledged or recorded at birth, but biological realities can't be assigned.