Don't get me wrong, I know you never said the Bible was factually accurate, my point is you don't need a reason to be nice to people. And someone following in Jesus' path is certainly admiral, given how morally up to scratch Jesus is in the New Testament [despite what an egotistical bastard he was in the old testament, or was that God? No Jesus is god. But wait, why does he pray to god then? I guess he must be the son of god. The trinity is a fascinating thing!] but it does NOT render religion valid in my eyes. Your still committing good acts in the name of something false.

I could go out on the streets now and give everybody a tenner in the name of Twacksmith, the god of leather pants, but despite my good actions, it would not make what I believe anymore credible.

You will, I should point out, see HOARDS of scientologists in there little yellow jackets helping people and showering them with care at most major disasters in America.

Most of our (and your) morality comes from the Bible

ProbeEight, there is such a concept as context.

For one, a lot of your quotes were injunctions from the Old Testament and part of the Old Covenant.

These were done away with when Jesus died on the cross, and we are under the new covenant where a lot of those rules were never copied across.

With regard to philanthropy, the 19th century reformers were motivated by their faith to assist their fellow human beings.

Can you give me examples of well known atheists or humanists who have done the same motivated by their beliefs?

Do you agree with the idea of original sin?

Are you kidding me? Plenty of people donate to charity, provide humanitarian work, work with various groups, and commit all manner of philanthropy. Both secular and non secular, from ALL religions. That's not what I am here to argue. No doubt there are decent Christians out there doing nice stuff. Plenty, in fact.

So what of the laws in the torah? Were they all done away with too with the advent of Jesus & the New Testament? I speak of course of various passages depicting homosexuals in a bad light, as many Jesus followers still seem to bible bash and quote old covenant and indeed Old Testament verses to back up there homophobia. That's what irks me.

So we are told live by the bible but a great half of it is no longer relevant now that Jesus came? It's this very nature of various interpretations that makes it such a joke, I think. In essence you are proving my point. That and the fact that 'concept of context' is very much a blanket argument. But that's fair, I don't expect you to refute every horrible thing said in the Bible. You do need to sleep tonight.

Out of interest and understanding, and not as a personal attack, again I want to ask you : Do you believe in the theory of evolution? Or do you subscribe to biblical creationism? Because Jesus did. He believed in both the story of the great flood and adam and eve. Are Jesus' beliefs now irrelevant too?

Seems to me the [proven] fact that the earth is MORE than a couple of thousands of years old and The Bible, even in a friendly, New Testament guise, utterly cannot co-exist.

Jesus was a creationist. He is your God & Messiah. Are you a creationist, too?

Yeah, it's done such a good job, has it not?

:joker:

How convenient it is that we are ALL born with sin, and the only way to heal it so to speak is to come to Jesus. L. Ron Hubbard would be proud!

You may also notice that quiet a lot of the seven 'deadly' sins lead to physical and emotional gratification. And that a few directly contradict, remove or solve the others [Pride Vs. Gluttony, for instance].

Ahhhh well we won't get through to these, they have an answer to everything, delusional or not.

if only you lot actually had a basic knowledge of what Christianity is then there could be a serious debate. All we have had so far is some myths, cliches and the usual insults that try (badly) to disguise a lack of subject knowledge.

Don't make me laugh, we know exactly what it is.

I think there's every possibility of a greater force but I do find the bible contradictory on points. I don't believe in placing all my eggs in one basket though so I don't really follow any religion and I don't think it's a point worth worrying about until you are near death or dead since we've got no proof to prove there's anything beyond death and no proof to say there isn't.

The Bible is 66 books written over thousands of years, some poetry, some prophesy, some allegory and some eyewitness history. The Old testament provides the types and shadows of what was to come in the New testament. The overarching theme is love.

Christianity is about faith and love. It is about how you live your life and how you treat others. It is not about a few facts or about death. It is about going to church, living, interacting and being.

Original Sin is a false doctrine, See Ezekiel 18 which comprehensively refutes it.

Christianity itself is full of contradictions and 'false' doctrines. Read the Bible, actually read it, you will see.

i'm a non-believer

Absolutely!! I agree 100% with this!!^^^^^^^^

Hehe and I'd wholeheartedly respect your faith in Twacksmith especially if you were givin me a tenner

Dan Brown has a lot to answer for.:elephant::elephant::elephant:

He writes fiction. Same as the bible. :)

Dan Brown?? lol. If people are generally good, then I don't see why they need to follow a whole set of rules which are alot of times pointless. I mean, take Catholicism for example, you're not allowed to use contraciption so it's better to have unwanted babies??? makes no sense at all

Yep, it's funny how the Pope casually said 'Limbo does not exist'. Where did all those unbaptized babies go?

I love your Catholicism summary. Perhaps you could look into it a bit more?

lol, I know, that was made up years ago so the rich could buy their way out of it! Always comes back to money with organized religions. Same as politics, the power & the money drives them

I was born into being a Catholic so don't you worry I know all about it and have choosen to use my own mind and not blindly follow what I was told to.

Yep I think even recently the Pope said, send more money to the church and spend less time in purgatory!!! An old Medievil scam.

Us protestants cottoned onto that in the 16th century and kicked up a stink...

Yeah, same with the priests not being able to marry, they were years ago but the church didn't want the wives getting their property so they changed the rule! Loving or money hungry, you decide???:joker:

Shame it went nowhere. The Vatican is it's own country, don't you know.

Ahhhh Catholics, always making it up as they go along, got to love it.

There are millions of good Catholics around the globe doing amazing things for people who would be forgotten otherwise

Yes there is just as there is also lots good agnostic/athiest people doing good things for people.

Not anywhere near the scale of organised Christian religion

What about the Red Cross? that's nothing to do with a religion??? Just wants to help less fortunate people.

And to go back to catholicism, what about all the misionary priests sent to Africa, helping the people yes but also converting them, so they as well can't use contraciption and they have aids running wild over there?

That again is a liberal myth. All of the studies have shown that the only effective way to halt the aids problem in Africa is abstinence and sticking with one partner. Condoms may work in the west with western education and lifestyle but they do not in Africa.

So who is you contention with, Christianity or Catholicism?

Many don't read the Bible and just accept what some groups say what it teaches. Also some who profess to be Christians do not live up to those ideals.

As for "unbaptised babies"

First Baptism if you read the New Testament was for believers and not infants. Second it was by immersion as the Greek word Baptizo used means immerse and baptism in Romans 6 and Colossians 2 is portrayed as a burial
Thirdly, infants are born innocent and not contaminated with the sin of Adam. That is the false doctrine of Original Sin, which Ezekiel 18 demolishes. Sin according to 1John is an act. Babies who die in infancy reach heaven and do not have to go to Limbo, a place whose existance is not supported by scripture either.

Ahhh yeah that is right, don't think or question about it, just accept it. Just about sums up Christianity. :thumbs:

2000 years worth of debate on one subject, written and analysed more than any topic imaginable


and you reply thus..


As I have said, you unintentionally lay your self open with every keystroke

Just cos it's deabated does not make it true!!!!!!!!

Thus it would be foolish to follow it and think you know, like Sticks does, which parts seem to matter and which don't. Now I see your argument, LeatherTrumpet!

Thank you and goodnight.

66 books. Thousands of years. Dozens of versions. Hundreds of edits. And it's meant to give you peace of mind?

:joker::joker::joker:

LOL!!! :laugh:
I am from Africa, thats gotta be the mot ignorant stupid thing I have ever heard in my whole life.
How does it not work in Africa? Did you think it through before making dumb posts like these? DO you think Africans are some idiots who cant comprehend how to use a condom? WHat kind of a dumbass are you?
And the red cross does great work in Africa, to prevent Aids, so does the church BTW. And they do not tell people not to use condoms.
YOu can get free condoms, in a lot of different places in Africa these days.

The irony is, you are acre actually the one who dont question your beliefs. You take the easy way out, probably because faith is something, thats above your brain capability.