It would be best if posters avoid making remarks attacking other posters personally. Stick to the topic.

MTVN and Netto are speaking sense, I pretty much agree with their points.

When it comes to all these 'threats to British Culture' it's quite laughable, Christianity was brought to England by the Romans and they pretty much built us up from nothing, the Anglo Saxons and Vikings left their marks too and with the British Empire we took other elements of other countries as well. Our culture basically consists of a myriad of other countries' cultures and things like Burkhas aren't threatening our culture it's just another newer element to it.

If you want to be quitessentially British go and engage in a few Pagan rituals and have a rave or two in Stone Henge because Paganism is pretty much where we started from, everything else we pretty much borrowed from other countries.

Usually the types you find in Bristol or Avebury, middle class kids wanting to be 'different'. :bored:

Not that that has anything to do with the topic, just felt like saying it :tongue:

Talk about undermine your own heritage! Thankfully we don't all have such a negative attitude! Many of us are proud of our country and our roots! Britain does have its own culture and identity - and is entitled to keep it!

By the same token British women have the right not to have such a blatant representation of female oppression shoved in their faces on their own doorstep!

Angus is right - it is no coincidence that most supporting burkas are male - who clearly have no proper understanding of the subject, how could they! So now you are saying that the rights of Muslim women override the rights of British women!

Maybe some Muslim women do 'choose' to wear the burka - but how many really do and are saying they do because they are being pressurised by men or their culture to do so - or they have been so brainwashed, they actually believe it! It is nowhere near as clear-cut as some imply! People shouldn't take everything at face value - things aren't always what they seem!

Well said Dezzy, I agree.

Oi, I'm from Birstol :tongue:

Well Netto said she was a female so thats your theory gone.

And we dont know the statistics as to how many UK burqa-wearers have been forced into wearing it, so it's pointless to make presumptions, but I find it unlikely that that the majority are not wearing it out of their own free will.

finally sumone sees sense, that burkha should be banned EVERYWHERE

I'm not undermining it, I'm just highlighting the fact that we were built on multiculturism due to all the different elements British culture represents. Without the influences of other countries and cultures we wouldn't be where we are now.

Who said I'm not proud of my roots? You can stop grasping at straws now.

Who the **** unbanned you? I thought you had a permaban.

I said MOST not ALL - so no that's not my theory gone!

i never go near anybody with them burkas because they could be hiding anything.

Careful Jack - you'll give yourself a hernia! :hugesmile:

his already got it.:joker:

So long as posts are within Rules
you have no worrys.


This thread is Full of Fights.


Back On Topic
this College is within its Rights.


Sign Of The Times.

It seems a lot of people on here seem to find it inconceivable that the MAJORITY of muslim women have no option BUT to wear the burkha - a refusal to do so is just not possible. It's not a matter of choice so much as a matter of doing as they are told. I lived in Kuwait, Saudi and Oman for a total of 7 years with my husband, and it's not funny to be expected not to speak unless spoken to, to walk meekly behind my husband,nor be allowed to drive (in Saudi), and not to voice any opinions on anything remotely topical or political. It was forbidden to talk with any male unless my husband was present for fear of accusations of being a loose woman (again in Saudi) and believe me you wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of the Saudi police. Kuwait was somewhat more liberal, at least I was allowed to drive a car. Note the emphasis on "allowed".

I was treated as a second class citizen which is, of course, how muslim women are still being treated today. It might be their culture, but such sexist attitudes have no place in Britain. It doesn't seem to have occurred to some FMs that banning the burkha, at least in public buildings etc, could actually be the first step in liberating these women. There are FMs banging on about how we should accommodate all cultures - fair enough but I balk at encouraging reactionary and oppressive cultural practises. Apart from the obvious security issues of concealing identity and promoting anonymity, the burkha isolates and separates the wearer from others, and of course this is the exact reason muslim men insist their women wear it.

Here is a good vid. It's not quite on topic, but it is to do with how we use the word 'tolerance' and how moat people don't think outside their own little box.

But Britain is supposed to welcome all these cultures and assimilate them into its society - at the expense of its own culture and way of life according to many bleeding heart liberals.

As we are now a multi-cultural society, our own historical British culture and identity are no longer important or valid, don't you know - only to be sneered at by those that seek to change the cultural demographic of this country!

Despite the fact that some cultures take liberties and attempt to abuse our hospitality and tolerance - how dare we complain! Much better to keep our heads down, obediently comply and walk around with the word 'doormat' deeply imprinted on our foreheads - after all we can't risk offending such cultures and their fragile sensibilities, even when they quite openly and blatantly offend us and ours! :sleep:

Such childish tit for tat nonsense can't be tolerated as it is our duty, as a welcoming multi-cultural society, to turn the other cheek, allegedly! Well as, the lady herself once said - this lady isn't for turning!

Massively valid point jedward fever. I went in to a store and some lads had their hoods up as it was raining heavy, They were told take the hoods off by a security guy. They did answer back and say let us get in first,the security guy said, 'we need to see who comes in and out'.

Then in come this group with the Burkha's on and nothing said at all, I just thought they could bring anything in. leave anything anywhere,then I often think who is really under there anyway ARE they all really genuine Muslim people. Really, anyone could dress like that for any reason.

That is why although I can understand the oppression of some Husbands to their wives being the reason for wearing them, it is in my view time our Govt, banned it in all public areas, all Citizens and visitors of any country in my opinion have the right to see who they are sharing, events, buildings and streets with as a right and in this time also for personal and National security.
As jedward fever said, anything could be hidden in them.

That is an obvious issue that some choose to ignore!

People are uncomfortable in that situation and hesitant to act and ask a burka wearer to remove their burka - partly out of respect and partly out of fear of the consequences - and some Muslims rely on that! It is ridiculous and noone should be put in that situation!

I wonder what will happen with these new scanning machines at airports - I hope noone is proposing that those in a burka should be exempt from being scanned, same as the rest of us! Many people don't like the idea of it and would rather not, but it is something we have to endure for the sake of security - absolutely no exceptions!

Yes, but that video is going on about if Muslims are going on about Tolerence then they should take a look at themselves in the mirror. It is also funny which 'brothers and sisters' just choose to get angry about.

This

What the ****, mods?

It wasn't a permaban guys, just a very long ban.



I might as well talk to a wall.... Our original identity is long gone. Thank the Romans for that, but they gave us the tools to go on to become the country we are now. You act like multi culturism is going to doom us all when it's what made this country what it is. You can't group people together either, You're acting like every muslim in the world wants to take away your liberties when they don't it's just like with all cultures and religions in the world it's the worst of them that get the coverage. How much coverage of Christianity has there been lately on things such as the peadophile priests, Westboro Baptist church ETC?

People focus on the worst and forsake the vast majority of people that just want to live their lives. You're judging an entire group of people on a few of the worst that have been given coverage instead of looking at it from both sides. I can see and agree that Burkhas should be banned in more delicate places that need higher security, not because muslims are a threat to society but you can't cover your face up like that in some areas and not allow hoodies and other clothes that do the same thing. In other places though it should obviously be the person's choice what they want to wear and no one else's. Plenty of Muslims would agree with that but since they don't go with the image of what the media wants Islam to be, they're not heard.

As for us being welcome matt's and hyperbole like that, Our society and Identity is based on Intergration, we wouldn't be as prominent in the world if it wasn't for the help and resources from other countries and their culture and if you can't respect that then sorry you don't respect Britain's identity as multi culturism & intergration is a massive part of our culture and it always has been.

http://www.x929.ca/shows/newsboy/wp-...burka-sexy.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_BhC4FgEYh6...1600/burka.jpg

You do know that you will now have a fatwa issued against you, don't you?!!

A fatwa is simply a religious announcement most are fairly innocuous.

If you did mean I will have muslims out hunting me or attempting to kill me, its not the first time. :wink:

The death warrant fatwas are reserved for "infidels" - after all they're not renowned for their tolerance and sense of humour about such things, that's for sure.:rolleyes:

I see from today's news that hard line muslims are forcing British born muslim girls to wear the burkha in faith schools - if this is not indoctrination and sexist subjugation I don't know what is. Why are we being complicit in allowing women to be browbeaten and brainwashed into submission by these medieval bullies? By NOT banning the burkha we are their partners in crime.

In the same news I see colleges are introducing state of the art face recognition technology to heighten security at colleges. How, pray tell, is that going to work with burkha wearing students???

Glad to see that a female muslim estate agent took her muslim boss to court because he insisted she wear a head scarf at work (his own wife and daughters are forced to wear burkhas). She won £13,567 payout for discrimination since he did not require this of non muslim workers. He also harrassed her by saying she had not been brought up properly and that she had been given "too much freedom" when she was growing up.

Seriously, why are we letting people with such sexist and medieval attitudes and beliefs about women continue to demean and subjugate women in ways that are unacceptable and actually illegal for the rest of us? Perhaps it is time for British women, of all races, to start lobbying parliament to challenge such reactionary, divisive and sexist practices, and the burkha is a good way to start since it will fulfil two important functions: A ban will promote women's rights, and will also enhance safety and security by removing the anonymity of this abhorrent garment.

Took a look for that article and guess where I've found it - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...wear-veil.html

If the Daily Mail haven't lost all credibility yet, then I dont what they have to do to make it happen.

It isn't just printed in the Daily Mail - hardly likely to have made it up are they.

http://www.educationnews.org/global/101031.html

http://news1.capitalbay.com/news/the...ols_where.html

Those links are just the Daily Mail article again, just on a different site :joker:

Come back to me when you have a credible source to back it up :xyxwave:

this.

100% agree with angus58.

Not related to the same thing just more news about how other countries are dealing with the situation.

http://www.iheu.org/ban-burqa-canadian-muslim-view

Makes for interesting reading about the Muslim view in Canada.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/05/it...e-anymore.html

And to suggest the Daily Mail would invent such an article is ridiculous.

I wouldn't waste your time responding, I don't. Some people just won't admit when they're wrong, especially when they have no personal experience of Muslim culture, and especially if they happen to be MALE. They will swear black is white even if evidence to the contrary is presented to them on a plate.

This country is sleepwalking its way to a scary future, where one section of the community are allowed to continue sexist discriminatory practices with the full blessing of politically correct idiots, that are deemed illegal for the rest of us.

I'm not necessarily saying they invented it, I'm just saying that if it appears nowhere else but the biased and discredited Daily Mail, I'm not particuarly inclined to accept it as fact.

Yes, I get it, you're a misandrist and men have no clue about the world or society :sleep:

For someone who claims to have some knowledge of Islam and muslims, you show outstanding ignorance, what fatwahs involving death sentences are 'reserved' as you put it for westerners.

I believe that the greater number of fatwahs regarding death sentences are actually for muslims who commit some of the crimes/sins that some schools of Islam's regard as worthy of a death sentence, you know things like adultery, apostacy and heresy.

What fatwahs regarding infidels do you refer to?


I would agree with you, but perhaps if you had researched this subject you would have found the schools are for muslims who want their children to be eductaed that way, they are voluntary fee paying schools, therefore people have a choice whether they send their children there or not.

Nah we arent sleepwalking anyway, most of this country of ours is fairly tolerant and understand that banning the burka would produce more problems than it solves. We also like to not get carried away with rhetoric and very little facts unlike yourself.

Mind you why not? if you cant find facts to suit your argument just make them up and try to shout loudest, your panic-mongering might actually gain the ear of the ill educated.

The parents may have a choice - but I very much doubt the girls do.

Personally it is my experience that the politically correct are most often the ill-educated.

Seems it's you putting your own interpretation on what I've said. Who said all infidels are westerners? Not me. It is common knowledge that fatwahs are issued against any who dissent, ridicule or in any way challenge Islam, and as many are issued against muslims as westerners (Salman Rushdie). Nor did I claim to be any expert on Islam or muslims, all I said was that I had the misfortune, being a woman, to live in muslim countries for several years and hated and despised the way women are treated there. Naturally my opinions and attitudes have been shaped by what I personally experienced, saw and heard and by interacting and speaking with muslim women. Silly me, having the audacity to form opinions based on life experience.:rolleyes:

As for rhetoric, you seem mighty fond of that yourself - but it doesn't bother me since this is a forum for DEBATE which of course involves a fair bit of rhetoric. I note a lot of YOUR posts are full of statistics etc lifted straight from wikipedia.

You appear to be crediting me with massive influence over people's thought processes if you are accusing me of "panic-mongering". Strangely enough, as a mere woman, I am still entitled to state my opinion and have no need to run it by any one first. I am flattered if you think my opinions carry sufficient weight to "panic-monger".

As regards the brainwashing of young girls in faith schools, no doubt you find that totally acceptable - whereas I do not, and guess what? Just cos your a man doesn't make YOUR opinion more valid than mine. As regards being voluntary fee paying schools, I think you'll find a lot of them get nice fat grants from the Government - that is if you care to do YOUR research. Irrespective of that, they are NOT entitled to teach in a way that is seditious to our culture and way of life, and clearly sexist subjugation of women by coercive brainwashing is unacceptable in any society except, it seems, if you're a muslim. The fact that a lot of us find the burkha an abhorrent sign of male domination of women doesn't seem to concern you, but then you're not female are you?

It is a FACT that sexual discrimination is ILLEGAL in this country, and I do not see why we should be expected to allow one section of society to flout the law and perpetuate the subjugation of women when it has been outlawed in this country for decades.

If you can't find the facts to back up YOUR rhetoric I suggest you return to Wikipedia for your next post since that is clearly where you get your greatest inspiration.

Would you care to show me what parts of the post you quoted came from wikipedia?

Why have you brought Salman Rushdie into the debate?

As for the sexual discrimination of women that a lot of outsiders see occuring in Islam, yes it is there, and it will continue for a long time.

Think on this if you can, the sects that insist on the woman being wrapped up so no one other than family can see her, wont change their rules just because the law in the UK says she cant wear what they consider to be decent clothing.

So what will happen?

The males of the household may be rich and willing to pay the fines indefinately. Then again they may not, but the most probable outcome especially in the poorer families is the wife is confined to the house pretty much for life.

So yeah carry on telling us how you despise the burka, how you want it not to be worn. But have a thought for what the end result could be for some of the women and girls.

Or you create enclaves of, for example, Safali muslims who then end up feeling marginalised by UK society, breeds resentment, blah blah blah, terrorist recruitment etc. blah blah blah.

Education and encouragement are better than legislation and criminalisation.

Wombai don't make multiple accounts, use your original one.