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-   -   Sexual abuse of a 5 month old baby (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163722)

Angus 07-10-2010 12:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucy. (Post 3831056)
How ironic. People need to read the posts properly, i.e. you. I said I UNDERSTAND why people want justice for their children, but ending someone's life wether their is a reason for it or not is making you a killer whichever way you choose to look at it. We are not here to play God and choose who dies and who does not. We are also not here to strip people of human rights, taking someone's right to food and protection away from them is unethical and inhumane and why would you want to stoop to that level? Loss of freedom is the punishment of prison which many people fail to realise. Besides, where do you draw the line with what is and what isn't worth death? Who are you to make that distinction? And don't spout off to me about me not being a parent and not understanding, just because you have a child doesn't give you the right to be immoral.
You still haven't read the posts properly have you. How do you equate getting proper justice with murder? There's more than one way to skin a cat. And who are YOU to impose your immature version of morality onto the actions and thoughts of others. In fact what is all this rubbish you are spouting about food, protection, ramble..unethical..ramble..inhumane..?
:sleep:

As to not playing God, we do that every day when we let paedophiles, killers, and rapists back onto our streets to harm and kill innocent people. I believe mealy mouthed, right on do gooders have caused the decline in our Judicial system which no longer has any deterrent value because the sentences are so laughable - now THAT is immoral. Human Rights Legislation that is weighted in favour of the perpetrator of crimes over the victims of crimes - now THAT is immoral. Lawyers who defend scum of the earth criminals and get them off on technicalities, now THAT is immoral. The reason why crime is on the increase is because criminals KNOW that our oh so "civilised and reasonable" society will NOT punish them appropriately.

It's you who needs to get your priorities and values straight before accusing others of being immoral. The very people you say are deserving of equal treatment to LAW ABIDING people are the criminals who are laughing all the way to the cushy prison cells where they can enjoy a brief holiday safe in the knowledge they will be out soon to re-offend.

Mystic Mock 07-10-2010 12:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angus58 (Post 3831154)
You still haven't read the posts properly have you. How do you equate getting proper justice with murder? There's more than one way to skin a cat. And who are YOU to impose your immature version of morality onto the actions and thoughts of others. In fact what is all this rubbish you are spouting about food, protection, ramble..unethical..ramble..inhumane..?
:sleep:

As to not playing God, we do that every day when we let paedophiles, killers, and rapists back onto our streets to harm and kill innocent people. I believe mealy mouthed, right on do gooders have caused the decline in our Judicial system which no longer has any deterrent value because the sentences are so laughable - now THAT is immoral. Human Rights Legislation that is weighted in favour of the perpetrator of crimes over the victims of crimes - now THAT is immoral. Lawyers who defend scum of the earth criminals and get them off on technicalities, now THAT is immoral. The reason why crime is on the increase is because criminals KNOW that our oh so "civilised and reasonable" society will NOT punish them appropriately.

It's you who needs to get your priorities and values straight before accusing others of being immoral. The very people you say are deserving of equal treatment to LAW ABIDING people are the criminals who are laughing all the way to the cushy prison cells where they can enjoy a brief holiday safe in the knowledge they will be out soon to re-offend.
i completely agree with this and im 14 years of age.

how can anybody tell kazanne off for wanting a pedophiles hands chopped off? and for wanting killers and pedophiles dead i totally agree with them that they should be dead, especially serial killers.

Lucy. 07-10-2010 12:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angus58 (Post 3831154)
You still haven't read the posts properly have you. How do you equate getting proper justice with murder? There's more than one way to skin a cat. And who are YOU to impose your immature version of morality onto the actions and thoughts of others. In fact what is all this rubbish you are spouting about food, protection, ramble..unethical..ramble..inhumane..?
:sleep:

As to not playing God, we do that every day when we let paedophiles, killers, and rapists back onto our streets to harm and kill innocent people. I believe mealy mouthed, right on do gooders have caused the decline in our Judicial system which no longer has any deterrent value because the sentences are so laughable - now THAT is immoral. Human Rights Legislation that is weighted in favour of the perpetrator of crimes over the victims of crimes - now THAT is immoral. Lawyers who defend scum of the earth criminals and get them off on technicalities, now THAT is immoral. The reason why crime is on the increase is because criminals KNOW that our oh so "civilised and reasonable" society will NOT punish them appropriately.

It's you who needs to get your priorities and values straight before accusing others of being immoral. The very people you say are deserving of equal treatment to LAW ABIDING people are the criminals who are laughing all the way to the cushy prison cells where they can enjoy a brief holiday safe in the knowledge they will be out soon to re-offend.
As always my point is missed. Prison cells are not 'cushy'. I never said they should get equal treatment that's a pile of bollocks, I said they shouldn't have their rights stripped as that reduces you to their level. Their loss of freedom is the punishment. There are many errors within the criminal justice system, I have never once said otherwise, but deciding to kill people isn't right. That's all there is to it, you have your opinion I have mine, I am now leaving, goodbye!

Angus 07-10-2010 12:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 3831117)
I dont hold with this 'ill' nonsense at all, these people often have good jobs and professions ,can well control themselves in public.

The only time we hear the 'ill' notion is when they are caught. They are 'sick' alright but only sick in their actions as to their horrendous crimes against Children.
There is an easy way to determine whether someone is "sick" or mentally ill.
If the perpetrator tries to hide their crime, they are not either, if they don't then they are. Sick or mentally ill people do not acknowledge they are doing anything wrong, they believe they are normal, so have no need to hide their behaviour.

Strange then that it can take years to track down paedophiles who are able to conceal their crimes and by doing so are acknowledging that what they are doing is against the law.

Tom4784 07-10-2010 12:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angus58 (Post 3831113)
Yes, but according to some on here the adults involved were only having a bit of fun!:rolleyes:
I read that topic and nobody defended the parents so you can stop right there.

Angus 07-10-2010 12:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by setanta (Post 3831116)
Nothing productive will ever be done when we continue to call them "bastards" and the like. Look, I totally understand where you're coming from, and the resentment and anger you feel towards the individual offender and a negligent judicial system, but like I said before, they'll continue to spring up again and again until we learn more about them through science and observation in a contained enviroment.
I know all that, but you have still not come up with any viable alternative to a lengthy stay at her majesty's pleasure. My beef is that the sentences are laughable and are no deterrent or, more to the point, protection for children in particular.

Mystic Mock 07-10-2010 12:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 3831162)
I read that topic and nobody defended the parents so you can stop right there.
angus58,kazanne and bb eye did tell the members off that were making sick jokes.

Shaun 07-10-2010 12:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angus58 (Post 3831089)
What utter patronising bull****! Your understanding of parenthood is zero if you are equating it to a mere biological function, instead of the lifelong, 24/7 love, care, and protection we give our children. What the ***** do you know about that except from a purely academic point of view? You have then gone on to say that since the children are not YOURS the crime can be viewed as neutral - well there you have the crux of the disagreement between parents and non parents on this forum. Though this crime involved a baby not related to me, BECAUSE I am a parent I can empathise TOTALLY with the parents of that child and I know exactly how they would be feeling and the hatred they feel towards the abuser.

It is very easy to be oh so reasonable and distant when you are NOT emotionally involved. The very least the parents of an abused child should be able to expect is that the judicial system punishes the abuser appropriately which, for me, would be locking them up and throwing away the key.

And just for the record, if you truly think that being a parent is simply dipping your wick and fertilising an egg, I suggest you remain childless. A child deserves total emotional investment, and if you don't GET that, maybe you will when you grow up.

Meanwhile don't bother lecturing me about parenthood - your own statements regarding your understanding of what it is to have a child have betrayed your immaturity and insensitivity so your opinion is pretty much compromised.
The fact you're a parent alarms me. You're a melodramatic mess.

You actually make my skin crawl. No wonder society's in such disrepute when figures like yourself - with this unwarranted belief that because you have semen/an egg and used it you're better and more informed than everyone - equate to the majority.

Beastie 07-10-2010 12:34 AM
Err I also find it disgusting that apparently criminals in jail might be able to have a job.. AND also get paid 12 grand a year. DISGUSTING. People in the real world can't even get a 12 grand a year job. Plus the crimimals still have a RENT FREE life in jail.

Prisoners SHOULD work when they are in jail too. Get them to the streets. Chain them on the roads and make them sweep the streets up!! Be treated like slaves with NO wage. They still get free food, water and shelter!! but no money!!!!

Too much pussy footing around in this country......

Prisoners should be treated like on that film.... "Cool hand Luke". That was good :)

Tom4784 07-10-2010 12:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kazanne (Post 3831067)
I think you should think before you say those things to Angus.maybe you should re- read her post.a bit of sensitivity here would be nice.
Why? in fairness she's done nothing but deride me and others throughout the topic and used the kids as an excuse to do so, Shaun said it the best when he said being a mother doesn't instantly make you a genius on the subject or more entitled to an opinion the people without.

Tom4784 07-10-2010 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedward fever (Post 3831170)
angus58,kazanne and bb eye did tell the members off that were making sick jokes.
Making jokes and defending the parents are two different things.

Angus 07-10-2010 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucy. (Post 3831158)
As always my point is missed. Prison cells are not 'cushy'. I never said they should get equal treatment that's a pile of bollocks, I said they shouldn't have their rights stripped as that reduces you to their level. Their loss of freedom is the punishment. There are many errors within the criminal justice system, I have never once said otherwise, but deciding to kill people isn't right. That's all there is to it, you have your opinion I have mine, I am now leaving, goodbye!
You are still putting words into mine and others' mouths to suit your own argument. The whole point of this debate is that the prison sentences are laughably lenient and therefore the loss of freedom for a short period is NOT deterrent. If, as a lot of people believe, such people are "sick", they should NEVER be released to re-offend, so why are they? And since justice has therefore not been served, it seems the answer according to you is "oh well".

It's easy to do a runner when you have a weak argument isn't it?:rolleyes:

Mystic Mock 07-10-2010 12:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 3831177)
Making jokes and defending the parents are two different things.
but kazanne and angus58 said think about the parents.

Mystic Mock 07-10-2010 12:38 AM
i think we should be more like thailand but instead chop serial killers and pedophiles hands off.

Tom4784 07-10-2010 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angus58 (Post 3831179)
You are still putting words into mine and others' mouths to suit your own argument. The whole point of this debate is that the prison sentences are laughably lenient and therefore the loss of freedom for a short period is NOT deterrent. If, as a lot of people believe, such people are "sick", they should NEVER be released to re-offend, so why are they? And since justice has therefore not been served, it seems the answer according to you is "oh well".

It's easy to do a runner when you have a weak argument isn't it?:rolleyes:
We can't make exceptions though, the law can't be grey it has to be black and White otherwise it's pointless. Everyone has to be treated the same otherwise we might as well give in to anarchy.

Lucy. 07-10-2010 12:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by angus58 (Post 3831179)
You are still putting words into mine and others' mouths to suit your own argument. The whole point of this debate is that the prison sentences are laughably lenient and therefore the loss of freedom for a short period is NOT deterrent. If, as a lot of people believe, such people are "sick", they should NEVER be released to re-offend, so why are they? And since justice has therefore not been served, it seems the answer according to you is "oh well".

It's easy to do a runner when you have a weak argument isn't it?:rolleyes:
I'm not putting words into anyone's mouth, they've said them themselves. Justice has not been served according to YOU and thankfully you don't rule the justice system or the country would be even more ****ed than it is with your dramatic take on everything. You think my arguement is weak, I think yours is unfounded. Ever heard of people leaving because they cannot be ****ed to argue with someone who reads things the way they want and spends the whole arguement telling everyone else what to do and think? Well that's what you call this, not a "runner".

Beastie 07-10-2010 12:39 AM
I say "test" the couple on their "sexual" fantasies. Let's bring Jigsaw out!! Set them a sexual fantasy trap!! Depending how their mind is on the "will to leave" they could survive.. they could not??

Bring on the saw traps!!!

Tom4784 07-10-2010 12:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedward fever (Post 3831181)
but kazanne and angus58 said think about the parents.
They aren't the authority on the matter, people make off colour jokes. It happens all the tiem on here. It doesn't mean anyone agrees or defend what happened.

Learn to think for yourself.

Lee. 07-10-2010 12:42 AM
To add my opinion to this argument... It may not be morally correct or blah blah blah, but if anyone harmed/abused/tortured/murdered my child, I would want that person dead. It's as simple as that! My OH and I were talking about Jamie Bulger and Baby P the other night and agreed that any rational thoughts would go out the window.. I'd probably kill them myself in fact.

Mystic Mock 07-10-2010 12:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucy. (Post 3831186)
I'm not putting words into anyone's mouth, they've said them themselves. Justice has not been served according to YOU and thankfully you don't rule the justice system or the country would be even more ****ed than it is with your dramatic take on everything. You think my arguement is weak, I think yours is unfounded. Ever heard of people leaving because they cannot be ****ed to argue with someone who reads things the way they want and spends the whole arguement telling everyone else what to do and think? Well that's what you call this, not a "runner".
if you dont think 10 years max on killing people isnt soft then i dread to think how you would run the country tbh.

Lucy. 07-10-2010 12:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedward fever (Post 3831192)
if you dont think 10 years max on killing people isnt soft then i dread to think how you would run the country tbh.
Did I say I thought that? Oh no, I didn't.

Mystic Mock 07-10-2010 12:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyland (Post 3831191)
To add my opinion to this argument... It may not be morally correct or blah blah blah, but if anyone harmed/abused/tortured/murdered my child, I would want that person dead. It's as simple as that! My OH and I were talking about Jamie Bulger and Baby P the other night and agreed that any rational thoughts would go out the window.. I'd probably kill them myself in fact.
i agree, say somebody gave me a knife to kill ian huntley i would kill him there and then.

Beastie 07-10-2010 12:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedward fever (Post 3831192)
if you dont think 10 years max on killing people isnt soft then i dread to think how you would run the country tbh.
The country ran better when there was tougher sentences.

Tom4784 07-10-2010 12:46 AM
I'm glad that a lot of people in this topic will never have power or control of anything regarding how this country is run.

Tom4784 07-10-2010 12:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebeast (Post 3831198)
The country ran better when there was tougher sentences.
Yup because Capital punishment has made America a crime free zone.

Mystic Mock 07-10-2010 12:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 3831199)
I'm glad that a lot of people in this topic will never have power or control of anything regarding how this country is run.
yeah we have the currupt leaders instead yay.

Mystic Mock 07-10-2010 12:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 3831200)
Yup because Capital punishment has made America a crime free zone.
thats only because america is an extremely big country.

InOne 07-10-2010 12:48 AM
I remember a facebook debate once, where a few of us labelled people who went on about violence and killing as "foamers". Because you could just imagine them foaming at the mouth with the thoughts of these sadistic acts they could so 'easily' commit. When the fact is most aren't even capable of torturing a frog.

Angus 07-10-2010 12:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun (Post 3831171)
I'm not even going to start. The fact you're a parent alarms me. You're a melodramatic mess.
It just shows the depths of your immaturity and idiocy that you try to score points by attempting to insult my worth as a parent, and attempting to dismiss my views as "melodramatic". A typical male ploy towards a woman when they're losing an argument! It would only be taken seriously by me if of course your opinions had any validity which, in fact, they don't. I have tell you my dear your views on parenthood are truly laughable.

I know I'M a good parent, but the jury is still out on you. Come back in 20 years time when you have some idea of what it is to be one.:xyxwave:

Beastie 07-10-2010 12:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 3831200)
Yup because Capital punishment has made America a crime free zone.
There will NEVER be a crime free zone but it will reduce the crime if there is harsher punishments. Too much pussy footing in the UK.

My statement is just a generalisation. There are people still out there who have done far worse than this thread story.

Too much pussy footing as in.. "oh everyone is mentally ill nowadays" wah wah. People can't take responsibilty for their actions.. cowards!!

Mystic Mock 07-10-2010 12:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebeast (Post 3831209)
There will NEVER be a crime free zone but it will reduce the crime if there is harsher punishments. Too much pussy footing in the UK.

My statement is just a generalisation. There are people still out there who have done far worse than this thread story.

Too much pussy footing as in.. "oh everyone is mentally ill nowadays" wah wah. People can't take responsibilty for their actions.. cowards!!
i totally agree,but sadly to many lefties now.:(

Angus 07-10-2010 12:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 3831199)
I'm glad that a lot of people in this topic will never have power or control of anything regarding how this country is run.
You're wrong there - a lot of us voted to kick out the useless Labour party in favour of a government that will hopefully start redressing the unfair balance between the rights of the victim and the rights of the criminal. So you could say that we're already in control by having the government of OUR choice calling the shots now.

Lee. 07-10-2010 12:57 AM
The whole country has become namby pamby!! Human right and political correctness have buggered everything up!! From schoolkids to criminals, there are no fearful punishments to deter! When I was young, I had respect (maybe almost fear) for teachers/my parents/the police etc. Not nowadays!
Same goes for criminals.. there just isn't a big enough deterrent!

Mystic Mock 07-10-2010 12:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by happyland (Post 3831215)
The whole country has become namby pamby!! Human right and political correctness have buggered everything up!! From schoolkids to criminals, there are no fearful punishments to deter! When I was young, I had respect (maybe almost fear) for teachers/my parents/the police etc. Not nowadays!
Same goes for criminals.. there just isn't a big enough deterrent!
i never feared my teachers but i still had respect for most of them and i would like to think that i will never commit a crime.

Kerry 07-10-2010 01:00 AM
Read a couple of lines and had read enough to want to vomit.

Just get rid of the dirty bastards

Tom4784 07-10-2010 01:01 AM
Capital punishment isn't a deterrent, America has horrific crime rates regardless. It does nothing to improve the rates.

Tom4784 07-10-2010 01:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedward fever (Post 3831217)
i never feared my teachers but i still had respect for most of them and i would like to think that i will never commit a crime.
Didn't you say a page a few back that you'd kill Ian Huntley if you had the chance? That'd be murder....

Kerry 07-10-2010 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 3831219)
Capital punishment isn't a deterrent, America has horrific crime rates regardless. It does nothing to improve the rates.
Look at the size of America though. Not sure I'd fancy being shot/killed if I did wrong

That said America has effed up badly somewhere along the line. Just not sure where exactly

Mystic Mock 07-10-2010 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 3831219)
Capital punishment isn't a deterrent, America has horrific crime rates regardless. It does nothing to improve the rates.
because there a much bigger country than the uk,if america was the same size as the uk america would have the smaller crime rate as the uk for such a small island has a very big crime rate.

InOne 07-10-2010 01:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 3831219)
Capital punishment isn't a deterrent, America has horrific crime rates regardless. It does nothing to improve the rates.
Good job these whip em and hang em types are a minority in this country. It would be more of a mess. Their arguments and statements get more ridiculous and less rational with every post.


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