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-   Serious Debates & News (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=61)
-   -   Forced sterilization (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200938)

Pyramid* 11-05-2012 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall (Post 5131420)
Yes but having such a authoritarian and dictatorial punishment in todays society is backwards and quite barbaric.

And even though such sentences aren't given out that much nowadays, life imprisonment can be far more punishing.
How many people in the UK these days are imprisoned for the rest of their natural life........ life imprisonment isn't life.

Pyramid* 11-05-2012 05:42 PM
I wish they'd done a poll on this : but split it into males /females: reading through the thread: it appears that it is mostly males who are against sterilization - with mostly the females being 'for it'.

Kazanne 11-05-2012 06:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky. (Post 5131429)
i agree with this totally. Unfortunately our 'justice' system is absolutely ridiculous and allows people such as the chinese woman who beat her baby to do a years worth of time...and then says her debt to society is paid...and she can go back to her normal life, have more kids to abuse...maybe get another year somewhere down the line...its just not right at all.

I would be all for life meaning life. And all serious crimes against kids getting life. But its just never going to happen. I know the sterilisation thing will never happen either though. But something really has got to be done about stuff like this. I mean, the guy who made a racist tweet...is likely to be in prison for longer than that woman is. How the **** is that fair?!

I honestly think that our justice system being too damn soft and inconsistent is the main reason so many offend in the first place. You can murder someone and be out in 5 years or so.
this 100%

Marc 11-05-2012 06:06 PM
Why has Vicky's post been used to start a thread.

Could've kept this in the originaly thread or just PMed each other to debate it :pipe:

Pyramid* 11-05-2012 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc (Post 5131906)
Why has Vicky's post been used to start a thread.

Could've kept this in the originaly thread or just PMed each other to debate it :pipe:
Given that at 124 comments, before mine here have now been posted, it's a bit late in the day for your question & suggestion.

I don't see the issue to be honest - people are still discussing it.

Marc 11-05-2012 06:11 PM
Indeed they are.

Mrluvaluva 11-05-2012 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc (Post 5131906)
Why has Vicky's post been used to start a thread.

Could've kept this in the originaly thread or just PMed each other to debate it :pipe:
A moderator moved it to a new thread. :spin:

Pyramid* 11-05-2012 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrluvaluva (Post 5131931)
A moderator moved it to a new thread. :spin:
:laugh2:

MTVN 11-05-2012 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc (Post 5131906)
Why has Vicky's post been used to start a thread.

Could've kept this in the originaly thread or just PMed each other to debate it :pipe:
Because it was being discussed in the video about the woman beating her baby thread, and then Scott made a new thread and people started discussing it in there too, so I moved all the posts here so we weren't having the same debate in different threads

Marc 11-05-2012 06:16 PM
Jesus Matt :bored:

:tongue:

MTVN 11-05-2012 06:16 PM
It's just common sense moderating, try it sometime Marc :idc:

Pyramid* 11-05-2012 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 5131941)
Because it was being discussed in the video about the woman beating her baby thread, and then Scott made a new thread and people started discussing it in there too, so I moved all the posts here so we weren't having the same debate in different threads
Sensible Mod.

Pyramid* 11-05-2012 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 5131947)
It's just common sense moderating, try it sometime Marc :idc:
:joker:

Marc 11-05-2012 06:19 PM
:shocked: Maybe I will

Jack_ 11-05-2012 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5131817)
Im standing by what I suggested, it is being trialled for peadophiles ...Voluntary chemical castration. It would be discrimination if the same soloution was not offered to women?...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...tish-jail.html
I was about to launch into a fit of rage before I saw 'voluntary'. I hadn't thought about that and didn't even see the option on the poll, so mistakenly voted to prohibit it completely. But absolutely, so long as they're volunteering and willing for this to happen, I've no problem whatsoever. In fact I think it's quite commendable.

But forcing people to face this kind of treatment - never.

Pyramid* 11-05-2012 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 5131956)
I was about to launch into a fit of rage before I saw 'voluntary'. I hadn't thought about that and didn't even see the option on the poll, so mistakenly voted to prohibit it completely. But absolutely, so long as they're volunteering and willing for this to happen, I've no problem whatsoever. In fact I think it's quite commendable.

But forcing people to face this kind of treatment - never.
You honestly think that the mother of Baby Peter for example, should be allowed to have another child after the hell that she and her cronies put him through?


You seriously think that the mother who killed her child for a human sacrifice should be allowed to bring another child into the world?

I cannot and will not ever comprehend why anyone would not agree such women should not be forcibly sterilised, legally.

Mrluvaluva 11-05-2012 06:24 PM
And so far the results in that poll are:

It isn't a suitable treatment and shouldn't be used 7.91% (124 votes)

It should be used but only on those who volunteer 26.04% (408 votes)

It should be compulsory for child sex offenders 66.05% (1,035 votes)


Total Votes: 1,567

Marc 11-05-2012 06:26 PM
Not sure we can physically sterilise anybody, that's just an extreme violation of human rights. Unfortunately life's a bitch

Jack_ 11-05-2012 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 5131964)
You honestly think that the mother of Baby Peter for example, should be allowed to have another child after the hell that she and her cronies put him through?


You seriously think that the mother who killed her child for a human sacrifice should be allowed to bring another child into the world?

I cannot and will not ever comprehend why anyone would not agree such women should not be forcibly sterilised, legally.
No, simply because I think both should be imprisoned for life. At least most of it anyway, if not indeed all of it.

As I've said in this thread already, forcing people to be sterilised just seems very authoritarian and quite fascist to me. Not the kind of place I think we should be living or endorsing in 2012, seems pre-historic. We should all count ourselves very lucky that we have human rights that protect us, and as I have already made clear, I don't think, no matter what, those human rights should ever be compromised on. Nobody should be above them, or else we open the doors to potentially all sorts of abuse.

Pyramid* 11-05-2012 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 5131987)
No, simply because I think both should be imprisoned for life. At least most of it anyway, if not indeed all of it.

As I've said in this thread already, forcing people to be sterilised just seems very authoritarian and quite fascist to me. Not the kind of place I think we should be living or endorsing in 2012, seems pre-historic. We should all count ourselves very lucky that we have human rights that protect us, and as I have already made clear, I don't think, no matter what, those human rights should ever be compromised on. Nobody should be above them, or else we open the doors to potentially all sorts of abuse.

Women can get pregnant in prison you know. There are male staff in female prisons.

Pyramid* 11-05-2012 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc (Post 5131974)
Not sure we can physically sterilise anybody, that's just an extreme violation of human rights. Unfortunately life's a bitch
What other way is there to sterilise anyone other than physically?

Marc 11-05-2012 06:39 PM
Mentally

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...ra_dancing.gif

Jack_ 11-05-2012 07:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 5132010)
Women can get pregnant in prison you know. There are male staff in female prisons.
Yeah, I am aware love. No need to state the obvious.

I'm not entirely sure what happens should a female prisoner become pregnant anyway (if anyone knows and could explain I'd be grateful) but I'd imagine, and hope that it'd be left with the woman's family/partner who are outside of prison, should they accept the responsibility of course. If not surely they're put into care/up for adoption? In which case I'd support such action.

Marsh. 11-05-2012 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 5132068)
Yeah, I am aware love. No need to state the obvious.

I'm not entirely sure what happens should a female prisoner become pregnant anyway (if anyone knows and could explain I'd be grateful) but I'd imagine, and hope that it'd be left with the woman's family/partner who are outside of prison, should they accept the responsibility of course. If not surely they're put into care/up for adoption? In which case I'd support such action.
I'm sure mothers (not all of them) get put on a special wing where they can have the child with them.

Jack_ 11-05-2012 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 08marsh (Post 5132092)
I'm sure mothers (not all of them) get put on a special wing where they can have the child with them.
So the child has to grow up in a prison alongside the mother? Not quite sure if I'm comfortable with that, assuming they're there for quite a bit of time.

Mrluvaluva 11-05-2012 07:50 PM
Have you never seen "Bad Girls" Jack? Or even Corrie...

Kizzy 11-05-2012 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 5132100)
So the child has to grow up in a prison alongside the mother? Not quite sure if I'm comfortable with that, assuming they're there for quite a bit of time.
Im sure they are fine jack...

http://www.toysit.com/bratz-fashion-dolls/babies.jpg
We as bin in prizon innit?...

InOne 11-05-2012 08:23 PM
BB's Chanelle was born in a prison and she turned out just fine...

Mrluvaluva 11-05-2012 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by InOne (Post 5132189)
BB's Chanelle was born in a prison and she turned out just fine...
:conf2:

InOne 11-05-2012 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrluvaluva (Post 5132215)
:conf2:
http://cache2.artprintimages.com/lrg...2/IQRED00Z.jpg

Marsh. 11-05-2012 10:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 5132100)
So the child has to grow up in a prison alongside the mother? Not quite sure if I'm comfortable with that, assuming they're there for quite a bit of time.
I'm not quite sure about the exact rules and regulations surrounding it, but yes they have a wing for mother's to have their babies with them. I would like to think that it is only small/newborn babies who are really dependant on having the mother with them. But once they've reached a specific time they would be told to hand them over to family members on the outside or something.

Pyramid* 12-05-2012 06:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc (Post 5132020)
Mentally
How does one sterilise a person mentally then? After all, this is a serious discussion Marc.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 5132068)
Yeah, I am aware love. No need to state the obvious.

I'm not entirely sure what happens should a female prisoner become pregnant anyway (if anyone knows and could explain I'd be grateful) but I'd imagine, and hope that it'd be left with the woman's family/partner who are outside of prison, should they accept the responsibility of course. If not surely they're put into care/up for adoption? In which case I'd support such action.


Quit with the patronising 'love' patter. It's tiresome. Clearly I did need to state the obvious....because of your next comment below.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 5132100)
So the child has to grow up in a prison alongside the mother? Not quite sure if I'm comfortable with that, assuming they're there for quite a bit of time.

Given that as I pointed out, that women do get pregnant in prison too: and that you are not comfortable with a child growing up in prison:...... what are you thoughts now then on unfit mothers or mothers who have abused their own children being sterilised: since your preferred option of 'being put in prison' does not rule out them bearing more children?

Pyramid* 12-05-2012 06:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by InOne (Post 5132189)
BB's Chanelle was born in a prison and she turned out just fine...
She may have turned out fine on the physical level but she has very clear issues: of the dangerous bunny boiler type IIRC. Doesn't mean to say that was as a result, but I'd hardly say she was the best example of what you are trying to argue.


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