Exactly - if you want a family holiday, go on a family holiday, and spend it doing the usual family stuff you would do at home (unless they were in the habit of popping out to the pub and leaving them at home alone? God knows...).

IF you want a holiday as a couple (which I personally think is a bit much to expect when you have 3 kids under the age of 3 anyway, but maybe that's just me) then just bloody admit it and either ask a family member, or pay a nanny, to look after them for a week at home.

I agree. That would have been better.

I'm not a parent yet but even i know the rights and wrongs.. I cannot with the posts I've been reading, basically defending the parens lol.

For greg, and claudia, and anyone else who missed it.

I find the excuses for them ridiculous but, me and my partner ran a parenting forum for nearly 4 years and genuinely nothing surprises me any more. I've seen people genuinely, sincerely, discussing something called "monitor minding" - which is, essentially, leaving a baby or toddler alone in your house and going out, with a neighbour keeping a baby monitor. This is somehow considered acceptable. People also manage to defend things like locking toddlers in a room screaming until they fall asleep huddled in a ball next to the door. That's not cruel either apparently.

When people started defending the practice of sedating perfectly healthy children on long-haul flights... we just gave up and shut the whole forum down. I just don't understand people, at all.

And that's why I have absolutely no problem believing that the McCanns tried sedating their kids (probably because she told them they'd woken up crying the night before), she woke up, fell and died, and they covered it up. There are huge amounts of forensic evidence that support this; evidence of pooled blood in the apartment, evidence of a dead body in the apartment, evidence of a dead body on one of Madeleine's toys and a t-shirt (and Kate McCann's clothing), evidence of blood and a body in their rental car. I'm sick of hearing about it.

I'm devastated for poor Maddie, whose life was undoubtedly cut tragically short, but it enrages me that however you look at it the whole thing is just another story of selfishness and neglect. The media won't admit it because it's "unthinkable" that two white, middle class, high income doctors fall into this category... even if the above theory isn't true.

So there's no chance Madeleine is alive?

Never before have I seen such a reaction to crimewatch...twitter is manic. One thats getting posted a lot is



I think this 'reconstruction' might have had the opposite effect to what the McCanns would have liked...

I shouldn't laugh but :laugh2:

Poor Gerry will be dying his hair now:shocked:

The funniest thing was the written description they gave for the person. Was something like.

"White male aged 20-40. Medium Build,Brown Hair. Clean shaven."

You could just imagine millions of people trying to grow facial hair.

Well whoever this man is he will now know the whole world is looking for him so will change his appearance and lay low.

Tbfair to that crap father, when the proposed person was seen walking to the beach with a girl he was looking for Madeline with his crap motherly wife. So i guess that rules him out.
That timeline is so important cause it shows that the parents had nothing to do with it.

I thought one of the criticisms of them is that initially neither joined in the search?
I missed this will have to hope it's on YT.

Thanks for the link Vicky, just watched it there.

Kizzy:

I agree, in fact I have said this in earlier posts, I think it was a tragic accident that has grown into this sad saga , if the parents keep trying to convince the world and it's dog that Maddie was abducted then perhaps they might convince themselves that's what happened.

But I think there is substantial circumstantial evidence that supports the accidental death theory.

Very sad for the parents , a bit of a living nightmare with no end in sight for the McCanns , sadly this will never end even when the trust fund money runs out..!!

This is quite a long documentary (52 mins) but essential viewing, IMO, for anyone interested in the Madeleine McCann case.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_ZdDTsFC2g

It is based on the book that the McCanns are now suing about. However the forensic and other evidence is pretty compelling.

The documentary's conclusion is that Maddie actually died on the night she was supposedly abducted as a result of an accident which occurred in the McCanns holiday apartment.

Have a look and draw your own conclusions.

...I find this still such a difficult one...I've never been able to understand how they could leave such young children alone..and watching last night, I hadn't known that the previous evening, Madeleine had actually said she'd woken up and they weren't there...and the left her again..?..just really bizarre behaviour...but then if they didn't harm her as such/know more about her disappearance..they've not only had to live through guilt about leaving her but also the criticisms/suspicions of the world and if they are 'innocent' of any physical harm then I can't imagine how that must feel either....

..interestingly though after the Crimewatch bit about Madeleine I switched over to something called ..'benefits, loud and proud..'..or something like that, I can't remember the exact name..I only caught the last 10 minutes or so but I think maybe it was about people who are on benefits and perceived to be 'milking the system'...?...anyway, there this family were talking about changes/building works proposed to their house and their children were running around, laughing, playing in the paddling pool..just generally being children and doing the things children do...and there were their parents with them..being there to watch out for them and making sure they don't have accidents etc and generally doing what parents do...but yeah, if that family had left their children alone in an apartment in a foreign country while they had a night out and one of them went missing...the other children would be taken into care within a blink of an eye....

I don't understand how they thought it was ok to leave them once alone at night in another country let alone more times and after she asked where they were when she and her sibling cried.It just doesn't make sense and they're obviously not stupid, I'm not a parent but that would worry me that I wasn't near them to look after them even if they woke from a bad dream.

Can't believe they put drinks and mates before their kids. Do I remember correctly that she wasn't going to check until the wind blew door open? All this being said I hope she is found well, doubtful though

the top police in the country have investigated this with a fine tooth comb, do you think if there was the slightest piece of evidence that would make the parents suspects they would go thru with the crime watch program

to say this crime is being covered up because they are white middle class is an absolute joke on your part.

No its not easy its the hardest thing in the world, but I can never get my head around two parents leaving their babies in an unlocked apartment while they dined out of view and on the other side of a swimming pool. What parent has hasn't put their child to bed and found them downstairs ten minutes later saying they needed a drink or felt unwell? I cannot understand leaving them at all especially after what Madeline said that morning. I am coming round to the fact that maybe the children were sedated because I can't see how they could be so complacent otherwise.

Yes,I got that too and never heard any of them looked for her.

Tbh I don't think what the McCann's did is that rare at all, like a lot of hotels offer things like baby listening services so that parents can leave their kids in the rooms once they've gone to sleep, is that really that much different or any more effective than checking on them every half hour?

yep exactly, I said this in the other thread as well, but if my 9 year old woke up in the middle of the night and we weren't there he'd be terrified. I just can't understand any parent ever thinking leaving kids that young alone was ok, ever. I mean her kids were still babies really. I wouldn't even do it with my 9 year old. And I do really feel for parents who've had their kids taken, when they took their eyes off them for a few minutes or whatever, that i can understand, but going out for dinner and leaving babies alone and especially when one of them had woken up and been upset by it the night before, it's gross neglect

I think both things are shockingly irresponsible, but no, they're not very different. I've said this in threads about this case before, my parents once left me and my younger brother in a locked hotel room so they could go and celebrate my mum's 40th birthday, I'd have been about 7 and my brother would have been 3 or 4 years old. They put us to bed and went downstairs for the evening. Obviously nothing bad happened to us but I suppose my parents would be under the exact same criticism if this had happened to them. The difference I suppose was that we weren't on the ground floor and the room was definitely secured.

I still feel sorry for them more than anything and I feel sorry for Kate McCann that people are criticising her emotional responses to what's happened to her - not many people have experienced what they have, how can anyone say she's not responding in the right way? She's lost her little girl and hasn't seen her for 6 years. If they are ever reunited, they're not going to know each other, her daughter has been growing up in god knows what kind of conditions for the last 6 years, possibly going through the worst kind of hell, she won't be educated, she won't be well cared for... how can she ever return to a normal family life after all of this? And that's if she's even alive... I just feel sorry for them, they're never going to get any closure, it's like she disappeared off the face of the planet.

:worship: Exactly.

Oh thanks Vicky, I'm going to watch this later

I think accidental death is a possibility. :suspect:

I found that odd in the reconstruction, she went to close the door but it was only when the door was slammed shut by the wind that she actually looked at the bed and saw Maddie had gone.

True. But also, after 6 years he may have changed beyond all recognition regardless too.

I mean, looking at my passport photo from January 2007 and I look like a completely different person now.

My dads fb status. This is someone who worked with the police for 40 years until retiring recently last year

Agree with him completely tbh

If the McCanns were responsible for Maddies death/disappearance though how sick is it that they keep bringing it up and actually are making money out of it. I think you'd have to be some kind of sociopath to do that

I'm not sure 'the McCanns' are. The father however..

I think the mother was negligent, no question. But I think the father has so much more to do with this than the official line tells us.

Which is why I find it so interesting about the other sighting being thrown out, and the newer sighting being the one that matters. Especially given that the Irish blokes original statement was that he was 60-80% sure that the guy he saw with the child was Gerry (after seeing the photo of Gerry carrying one of the twins off the plane in the exact same hold)

Have they still not admitted they killed her and covered it up?

That new efit photo looks very like Gerry also

Do you know, I don't like saying it, but that thought crossed my mind during Crimewatch. In the pre-recorded and the live interview he was always the calm and collected one, whilst she seemed the most raw and emotional.

Not saying that he needs to be shedding tears or react in a certain way. But she always talks about how "as Gerry said" and how he's the one who refused to feel guilty, he pulled her out of her sorrow because Maddie wouldn't want them to shoulder the blame etc.

The only thing that doubts this though is the fact that one of their friends checked on Maddie at 9.30pm and then it was only when Kate went to check at 10pm that she raised the alarm. No mention of Gerry having gone anywhere from the restaurant between those times.

But then how long after Kate entered the apartment until the police arrived?

I have been flowing this since may 2007 I don't blame the parent's everybody makes mistakes and I was on C5 news yesterday and the people who live in the town in Portugal where Madeline went missing they just wanted it to stop because it has a bad effect on the era I was so angry they should to all they can to find clues if a child went missing in my era I would want them to carry on search the era for clues. I still believe that Madeline is alive when they find the person who did it He will be hated worldwide.

:bored: :nono:

Took them nearly an hour to contact police after discovering she was gone.

Their friend who checked on them didnt actually see the kids..just checked for noise (same as Kate was going to do before door clammed)

I don't get why the Mcanns are seriously being thought of as murderers. Negligently poor parents, but I really don't think there is anything overly sinister about them.

So in the confusion of wondering where she might be, they quickly searched the local places around the apartment and didn't phone the police. It's really unfair to suggest in times of severe stress that they didn't act normally.