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-   -   12 year old Boy shot dead for carrying a fake gun (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267975)

Liam- 26-11-2014 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiRTh (Post 7391349)
At that age girls are usually taller than boys. Would he have been scared if it was girl? Its an absolute joke to say that officer was scared.

You seem to be missing the point.. if it was the kid on his own, no the officer or anybody wouldn't have been scared.. but the kid had a - what was thought to be a real - gun, that's what added the danger, so the height of the child is completely irrelevant.

arista 26-11-2014 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 7391347)
Rationalising the murder of a child? Some people have no shame.


Dezzy America
is like that

GiRTh 26-11-2014 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiamPRW (Post 7391351)
You seem to be missing the point.. if it was the kid on his own, no the officer or anybody wouldn't have been scared.. but the kid had - what was thought to be - a real gun, that's what added the danger, so the height of the child is completely irrelevant.

It matters that the person was a child. I find it hard to believe that a trained Police officer was afraid of a child to the extent that he felt he had to shoot them. I dont find it believable.

Crimson Dynamo 26-11-2014 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiRTh (Post 7391345)
http://www.ask.com/health/average-he...0d104f73bb0c07

According to Ask.com the average height for a 12 year old boy is 58-62 inches. Barely five foot. The officer must have been ****ting himself.

EDIT - and at that age girls are usually taller than boys./ Would he have been scared if it was girl? Its an absolute joke to say that officer was scared.

averages are made from many different heights



reaching...

Crimson Dynamo 26-11-2014 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 7391347)
Rationalising the murder of a child? Some people have no shame.

So the officer should have just been shot by the child because he was just a child about to shoot him?



No, naughty cops, just shoot adults who want to kill you, and only male adults

Liam- 26-11-2014 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiRTh (Post 7391354)
It matters that the person was a child. I find it hard to believe that a trained Police officer was afraid of a child to the extent that he felt he had to shoot them. I dont find it believable.

A child with a gun, i doubt the cop woke up in the morning and decided to go out and slaughter a child for the hell of it.

He had a job to do, police officers are trained to asses situations and assess how dangerous the person in question is, at this point he saw someone waving a gun around, it doesn't make a difference if it is a child or not, so he reacted in the way that they are trained to do.

I can't imagine this cop being happy to feel the need to kill a child, but under his oath to serve and protect, that is what he felt he needed to do and now he has to live the rest of his life knowing that he killed a child who was idiotically branding a fake gun, made to look like a real one, because he was doing as he was trained to do.

arista 26-11-2014 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 7391283)
But he's a child, maybe he panicked? The Police should be trained better to deal with this sort of thing.



Yes
but sadly children with guns
have killed Police
in America

GiRTh 26-11-2014 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 7391355)
averages are made from many different heights



reaching...

You accuse me of reaching with all your 'probably' and 'maybe'? Thats laughable.

The gun was not real, the officer was warned but for some reason they are now saying he wasnt, the CHILD was not even a teenager.

Tom4784 26-11-2014 12:46 PM

At the end of the day, police officers like the one in this story are using guns as a first resort when they should only be used in life or death situations. They're firing first and asking questions later which is leading to a lot of innocent lives being lost.

If this child murderer was even somewhat competent at his job he would have assessed the situation, not go in guns blazing. Having restraint in this situation wouldn't have led to the officer having a child's blood on their hands. If he can't remain calm and thus calm down a situation without having to kill someone then he shouldn't be a police officer in the first place.

GiRTh 26-11-2014 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiamPRW (Post 7391358)
A child with a gun, i doubt the cop woke up in the morning and decided to go out and slaughter a child for the hell of it.

He had a job to do, police officers are trained to asses situations and assess how dangerous the person in question is, at this point he saw someone waving a gun around, it doesn't make a difference if it is a child or not, so he reacted in the way that they are trained to do.

I can't imagine this cop being happy to feel the need to kill a child, but under his oath to serve and protect, that is what he felt he needed to do and now he has to live the rest of his life knowing that he killed a child who was idiotically branding a fake gun, made to look like a real one, because he was doing as he was trained to do.

You rightly say cops are supposed to assess a threat but there are very few cases of children murdering police officers. Look all around the world, it just doesn't happen. The officer failed to correctly assess the threat.

Liam- 26-11-2014 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiRTh (Post 7391368)
You rightly say cops are supposed to assess a threat but there are very few cases of children murdering police officers. Look all around the world, it just doesn't happen. The officer failed to correctly assess the threat.

But there are many cases of children killing in general.. children getting into gangs and getting themselves into trouble.

Just because the person involved was a child, does not make them any less dangerous than anyone else, a child with a gun, is just as dangerous as a grown up with a gun.

GiRTh 26-11-2014 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiamPRW (Post 7391370)
But there are many cases of children killing in general.. children getting into gangs and getting themselves into trouble.

Just because the person involved was a child, does not make them any less dangerous than anyone else, a child with a gun, is just as dangerous as a grown up with a gun.

I beg to differ. It is truly a sorry state of affairs when a trained police officer sees a child as just as much of a threat as an adult. To say that an officer had to shoot a child would take extraordinary set of circumstances for me but I suppose we disagree on that.

Liam- 26-11-2014 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiRTh (Post 7391372)
I beg to differ. It is truly a sorry state of affairs when a trained police officer sees a child as just as much of a threat as an adult. To say that an officer had to shoot a child would take extraordinary set of circumstances for me but I suppose we disagree on that.

Okay then so lets look at it like this.. If a man of say 30 was waving a gun around and aiming it at people, but he was only the size of a 12 year old child, so hence looked like a child.. would the officer at the scene not have to take taught action against him because he was the size of a child so wasn't necessarily intimidating?

GiRTh 26-11-2014 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiamPRW (Post 7391373)
Okay then so lets look at it like this.. If a man of say 30 was waving a gun around and aiming it at people, but he was only the size of a 12 year old child, so hence looked like a child.. would the officer at the scene not have to take taught action against him because he was the size of a child so wasn't necessarily intimidating?

I would expect the officer to correctly assess the threat.

Liam- 26-11-2014 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiRTh (Post 7391375)
I would expect the officer to correctly assess the threat.

Like he did with the child, they see a gun being branded in public and being aimed at people around them, they look at the gun, not the person holding it, because at that moment, it doesn't matter who's holding it because the danger would be the same no matter what.

Tom4784 26-11-2014 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiamPRW (Post 7391379)
Like he did with the child, they see a gun being branded in public and being aimed at people around them, they look at the gun, not the person holding it, because at that moment, it doesn't matter who's holding it because the danger would be the same no matter what.

I wouldn't say that he assessed the situation correctly if a child is dead over a toy gun.

Crimson Dynamo 26-11-2014 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 7391384)
I wouldn't say that he assessed the situation correctly if a child is dead over a toy gun.

how many times?

It was not a toy gun

:rolleyes:

Tom4784 26-11-2014 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 7391387)
how many times?

It was not a toy gun

:rolleyes:

If that's what you're focusing on here then I pity you, I honestly do.

Niamh. 26-11-2014 01:14 PM

And I still don't get why he didn't use a tazor instead. I just read this on another article


"On social media, commentators noted the irony of police shooting a boy with a replica gun in Ohio -- one of several US states where openly carrying a firearm is legal."

GiRTh 26-11-2014 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 7391392)
And I still don't get why he didn't use a tazor instead. I just read this on another article


"On social media, commentators noted the irony of police shooting a boy with a replica gun in Ohio -- one of several US states where openly carrying a firearm is legal."

Didnt know Ohio is an open carry state which means that if he'd been some hairy arsed 30 year old man with a permit for his gun then he would be free to openly show his firearm in public. Just amazing.,

GiRTh 26-11-2014 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 7391391)
If that's what you're focusing on here then I pity you, I honestly do.

X2

Crimson Dynamo 26-11-2014 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 7391391)
If that's what you're focusing on here then I pity you, I honestly do.

if you cannot see the distinction then I would suggest you are just trolling this thread

Niamh. 26-11-2014 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiRTh (Post 7391401)
Didnt know Ohio is an open carry state which means that if he'd been some hairy arsed 30 year old man with a permit for his gun then he would be free to openly show his firearm in public. Just amazing.,

It's complete madness.

Crimson Dynamo 26-11-2014 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 7391392)
And I still don't get why he didn't use a tazor instead. I just read this on another article


"On social media, commentators noted the irony of police shooting a boy with a replica gun in Ohio -- one of several US states where openly carrying a firearm is legal."

if it was a call to an armed suspect then you leave the tazer in the car. They respond to guns with guns.

remember they were told it was an armed man in park pointing a gun around, that is wall they got.

Crimson Dynamo 26-11-2014 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 7391406)
It's complete madness.

With all the unrest and looting going on in the other area I imagine quite a few residents are happy to have a firearm to protect their families and property

Niamh. 26-11-2014 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 7391408)
if it was a call to an armed suspect then you leave the tazer in the car. They respond to guns with guns.

remember they were told it was an armed man in park pointing a gun around, that is wall they got.

how do you know what they were told? According to the 911 call we heard, the operator was given the information that it was probably a fake gun and probably a juvenile.

Crimson Dynamo 26-11-2014 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 7391412)
how do you know what they were told? According to the 911 call we heard, the operator was given the information that it was probably a fake gun and probably a juvenile.

No, I read earlier, i think the NYT, that they were not told this information.

Niamh. 26-11-2014 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 7391415)
No, I read earlier, i think the NYT, that they were not told this information.

This article?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/us...icer.html?_r=0

Doesn't say that they weren't informed that it may fake/he may be a juvenile in that, it says they were investigating what information was relayed and that's it. This is a good quote from that article though :

“The police have to address these things in the proper context,” he said. “This is a 12-year-old boy. This is not a grown man. I’d think you would handle situations with children differently than you would with an adult. They don’t fully understand everything that is going on.”

Crimson Dynamo 26-11-2014 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 7391421)
This article?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/us...icer.html?_r=0

Doesn't say that they weren't informed that it may fake/he may be a juvenile in that, it says they were investigating what information was relayed and that's it. This is a good quote from that article though :

“The police have to address these things in the proper context,” he said. “This is a 12-year-old boy. This is not a grown man. I’d think you would handle situations with children differently than you would with an adult. They don’t fully understand everything that is going on.”


Jeff Follmer, president of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association, said the officers were not told the caller thought the gun might be fake. He said an officer taking a Taser out when they believe there could be a person with a gun puts the officer at risk, the Plain Dealer reported.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...-boy/19471925/

Ninastar 26-11-2014 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiamPRW (Post 7391358)
A child with a gun, i doubt the cop woke up in the morning and decided to go out and slaughter a child for the hell of it.

He had a job to do, police officers are trained to asses situations and assess how dangerous the person in question is, at this point he saw someone waving a gun around, it doesn't make a difference if it is a child or not, so he reacted in the way that they are trained to do.

I can't imagine this cop being happy to feel the need to kill a child, but under his oath to serve and protect, that is what he felt he needed to do and now he has to live the rest of his life knowing that he killed a child who was idiotically branding a fake gun, made to look like a real one, because he was doing as he was trained to do.

Well said...

I think people often forget how dangerous America can be sometimes. It wasn't too long ago that there was those cases of people literally eating people alive in public. A police officer was even attacked in one of those events.

I'm not comparing those events, but I'm just using it as an example to show what kind of craziness goes on in America.

I definitely agree with those saying the gun laws are crazy... It's true. They need to have a hell of a lot stricter policies put in place.

Niamh. 26-11-2014 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 7391433)

Jeff Follmer, president of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association, said the officers were not told the caller thought the gun might be fake. He said an officer taking a Taser out when they believe there could be a person with a gun puts the officer at risk, the Plain Dealer reported.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...-boy/19471925/

Ok so he says they weren't told that the gun may be fake, it doesn't say anything about whether or not they were told he was or may be a juvenile though and what you said was "remember they were told it was an armed man in park pointing a gun around, that is wall they got" The fact that he didn't say they weren't told he may be a juvenile but did say it about the gun tells me that maybe they were given this information :think:

Crimson Dynamo 26-11-2014 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 7391445)
Ok so he says they weren't told that the gun may be fake, it doesn't say anything about whether or not they were told he was or may be a juvenile though and what you said was "remember they were told it was an armed man in park pointing a gun around, that is wall they got" The fact that he didn't say they weren't told he may be a juvenile but did say it about the gun tells me that maybe they were given this information :think:


to be fair the call came in from an old man across the street so i would imagine the call to the patrol was vague and loaded with "proceed with caution"


I would imagine the cops have had many "he is a juvenile" calls only to be met with a 240 pound 6 foot 2 adult

Crimson Dynamo 26-11-2014 02:05 PM

http://americangunfacts.com/

interesting graphic

Niamh. 26-11-2014 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 7391450)
to be fair the call came in from an old man across the street so i would imagine the call to the patrol was vague and loaded with "proceed with caution"


I would imagine the cops have had many "he is a juvenile" calls only to be met with a 240 pound 6 foot 2 adult

Doesn't sound much like they proceeded with caution to me, not for that poor kid anyway. Anyhow, we're going round in circles now. RIP to that poor child and I hope his parents get some justice for him.

Tom4784 26-11-2014 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 7391404)
if you cannot see the distinction then I would suggest you are just trolling this thread

You're focusing on pedantic and, ultimately, irrelevant things because you can't defend that child killer by any other means. Like I said before, If this murderer was competent at his job then there would have been no need for violence. Instead of calming the situation down he aggravated it. A child is dead by his hand because he failed to do his job properly and assess the situation by acting appropriately. This officer saw this black boy with his TOY gun and he racially profiled him and instead of clarifying the situation he went in and shot this kid twice.

His actions are indefensible. If you're going to accuse me of trolling then I'm going to say this. Would you be defending this man if he killed a white child?

Ammi 26-11-2014 06:14 PM

..it seems odd that the old guy who made the call and was across the street could have assessed that the gun could have been a fake but a trained police officer couldn't...

Niamh. 26-11-2014 06:19 PM

12 year old Boy shot dead for carrying a fake gun
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ammi (Post 7391875)
..it seems odd that the old guy who made the call and was across the street could have assessed that the gun could have been a fake but a trained police officer couldn't...


Mm very good point, I think I read somewhere that the cop was a rookie, I wonder would a more seasoned cop have been so quick to pull the trigger?

letmein 26-11-2014 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 7390337)
Not to mention how often we hear about kids finding their parents guns. We are constantly being told by the liberal media how often kids take their parents guns, so it's not a stretch to believe a 12 y/o might have a real gun.

The "liberal media"? Oh, gawd. :joker:

letmein 26-11-2014 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista (Post 7391361)
Yes
but sadly children with guns
have killed Police
in America

You live in the US?

letmein 26-11-2014 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nedusa (Post 7390942)
Let's just say some poor drugstore worker or liquor store owner is probably now not going to be robbed and violently gunned down somewhere in a few years time.

That's a whole family now not having to go through the worst ordeal of their lives.

Nuff said.





.

There's a lot of sociopathy found in your comments.


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