2 x different awards Vicky

Bit of a disgrace imo.

Lots of people leave their kids alone, even if it's for a few minutes. They do other stupid, endangering stuff too. My brother, when his first daughter was little, was playing with her and threw her up in the air and hit her head on the ceiling. Is he an abusive parent? No... he was beside himself with remorse and guilt for his stupidity. Luckily she was fine and he didn't have to have strangers tell him what a bad parent he is for the rest of his life. It was stupid what the McCanns did, but it's what thousands holidaymakers do every year and no one on here can argue with that, although no doubt some of you will try. Sadly, on top of having her child taken and not knowing what happened to her, some people find some kind of sick joy is sticking it to the McCanns when most of you know absolutely bugger all about the case except what you've read on the Internet.

I really agree with this. Like, taking the case on face value, without considering any conspiracies etc and just looking at what we know (or probably more importantly, ignoring what we don't know) and so assuming that they had nothing to do with it, it is a situation that could have happened to any number of people. And that's not to justify that they left her alone, personally I think they never should have done that, and it's great in a way that so many people find it shocking that they did, but it can't be denied that a lot of parents do it. And a lot of parents will have done it the same night that Maddie went missing. So as much as it can be argued that 'it's all their own fault' because of their actions, it's also a fair argument that they were incredibly unlucky. Luck has to come into it for the simple reason that their child was taken, rather than someone elses.

I can see your point but ultimately I can't bring myself to agree with you; most people's stupid mistakes don't result in a missing child, a media storm, lawsuits, being uncooperative with the police, fundraising etc - these things are accountable, when they involve the public, especially on the fundraising front. I think it's a huge stretch to compare accidentally injuring your child when you're having a bit of fun with choosing to leave your children in an unlocked apartment while you go out for dinner, those are not similar scenarios, your brother didn't leave his child and came back to find her injured.

I've not seen a mass of people come out and say that they would do what the McCanns did on their holiday. I've seen people sympathise with them for their loss, I've seen people sympathise with them for making a foolish decision like that, but I've not seen people say "yeah don't worry about it I'd have done the same" - it IS stupid to leave your kids in an unlocked apartment while you go out for dinner. Would they have done that at home? I doubt it. Holiday mode madness set in. But when there were numerous options available to them, it seems maddeningly stupid. I don't agree that thousands of holidaymakers would do the same thing as them, certainly not now that this high profile case is so well known to the public - would you want to be the couple who made the same mistake as the McCanns after a decade of seeing them be vilified in the press and having no answers to where their daughter went? Nobody has anywhere near this level of vitriol for the parents of Sarah Payne, April Jones, Holly Wells, Jessica Chapman, Ben Needham, Milly Dowler... the cold lack of emotion is a factor, and so is the lack of cooperation with the police, and so is the lack of admission of guilt on their behalf (I presume because they don't want a lawsuit/court case)... that's the difference for me.

And the other thing that's always bothered me, of course, is why would a kidnapper take the toddler and not take the babies too, if they'd been planning on taking her and had been watching the property? There are far too many holes in the hypothesis for it to make any sense. I can't figure out their motivations, but it's certainly not all about finding their daughter, they've not done everything they can to do that and I find that abhorrent and I think that makes them fully accountable to the public and they deserve to be scrutinised and have people doubt their claims, because they've not done everything in their power to convince anyone otherwise. They can sue me if they want to.

I think the terrible thing for Maddie's parents is, there is no closure. That one stupid act not only left them without their daughter but a continuing speculation about what happened to her. I just can't imagine a nightmare worse than the one they have to live through on a day to day basis.

If I thought there was the slightest possibility of my child still being alive, I'd be doing what they are doing, which is anything to get media interest. The problem is, every time they do this it stir up refreshed hatred towards them.

That depends on whether or not you believe their version of events of course. There's no evidence of an abductor and the PJ originally concluded that the parents were involved but didn't have enough evidence to charge them. Ultimately, there is not enough evidence to support either theory 100% so i don't know why people get so indignant about the fact that the parents being involved is a strong possibility :shrug:

God forbid it could of been a lone pedo or a pedo ring that took her. Someone who had no interest in boys. Pedos get fixated with certain ages and certain types. The same week Maddie went missing an English guy chased a man away on the beach for trying to take photographs of his daughter who was the same age and colouring as Maddie.

She could of been taken and sold for a lot of money to a childless couple in a far away land.

After thoroughly reading the case notes which include the repeated interviews of the parents, parents friends and possible witnesses, I just can't see how this could of been Maddie's parents.

The Portuguese investigation was a mess, detectives passed things to the British press that later turned out to be untruths.

That's your opinion on it though, I've done quite a bit of reading on it myself and plenty of other people I've spoken to about it have done extensive research , like yourself and have the complete opposite opinion to you.

You could very well be right but equally so could they :shrug:

Let's take your scenarios then.

1) Lone paedophile. Watching the apartment, sees the parents go out for dinner and leave the door unlocked with somebody coming to check on kids every so often. Walk in after one of the checks. Is your motive personal, you want to abuse a female toddler? Alright, take just Madeleine. Tell me how they aren't at least partially to blame in this scenario? They could have easily locked the door and given the key to whichever friend was due to go check on the children.

2) Gang of paedophiles. Why would they not take all of the children? Babies grow into toddlers. There will be mixed interests within the gang, or they'll know someone who would have been into that sort of thing or had access to people trafficking avenues. If there's a group of them, carrying three small children is hardly an issue. However, more people = more chance of leaving forensic evidence, of which there seems to be none.

3) Taken and sold to a caring, upstanding family abroad. They'd have known by now who Madeleine McCann is and if you're buying your children on the black market I'm going to assume there are very particular reasons for not having children a more conventional route and that maybe there's, shock, an evil element to it.

Face it, she's not alive, it IS their fault in some way whether they want to admit it to themselves or not and if she IS still alive, I don't imagine there's any hope for her to have a normal life if she's ever found. For her sake, I hope she's dead, I would hate to think what a toddler in the clutches of a paedophile/s would have gone through over the last decade.

And, you know, regardless of how many hypothetical paedophiles were involved, I can't imagine one/a group walking into an unlocked room with three unprotected children and going "oh, we'll just take the one." That would literally be the jackpot, why would they only take one? It makes absolutely no sense.

If someone was watching the apartment as some believe, why would they enter via the unlocked patio doors then open a window to remove the child (leaving no evidence of doing so too) when they had just entered via an unlocked door...they wouldn't have ENTERED through the window as they were watching the place and knew the door was unlocked.

As for the 'second exit' excuse that I know will come..the McCanns claim they could see the apartment from where they were. I am doubtful but lets take them at their word. Someone who had been watching would know this, so why would they open a window that the parents could see?

The party line makes no sense. Also it was the UK police who first suspected the parents..little known and doesn't fit in with the 'bumbling foreign police' line ;)

The only situation I can make work without the parents being involved in some way, is that the child woke up and wandered and was THEN either knocked down or taken by someone opportunistic. But we are told time and time again this could not possibly be the case as a nearly 4 year old who was known to get out of bed on a night (and even run and hide from her parents at times, playing)...who apparently the door was left open FOR incase she needed to get out... could not possibly have got up and walked out of the unlocked door herself :shrug:

Yeah I think they more or less pigeon holed themselves into this farcical "someone took her!!!!" scenario in an implausible way and they're too proud to change their tune... which in itself seems to be very common among families who have lost someone, they cling to what they first think/are told is the truth... but once the facts became clear, this claim of her being taken out of the window or the place being broken into makes zero sense. Obviously I hope that they don't have anything to do with it and haven't been leading the public along a wild goose chase but there are SO many inconsistencies in their story and their unhelpful attitude compounds this image of them being a bit cold and unlikeable which is not what you want to come across as when we're talking about a missing child... JonBenet Ramsey's parents were suspected for years before they were formally cleared of suspicion and even then there are still people who think they did it. This will never go away for them and if Madeleine's dead and they somehow find the bones, there probably won't be evidence left for them to analyse so there's really nothing they can do... and how likely is it they'll recognise a teenager who used to be their toddler? Of course they will never and should never stop looking, but I'm surely not the only one who thinks there's not much point anymore... they won't be getting their baby back, they'll be getting a damaged teenage stranger who won't know them.

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The full objects of the Fund are:

To secure the safe return to her family of Madeleine McCann who was abducted in Praia da Luz, Portugal on Thursday 3rd May 2007;

To procure that Madeleine's abduction is thoroughly investigated and that her abductors, as well as those who played or play any part in assisting them, are identified and brought to justice;


To provide support, including financial assistance, to Madeleine's family.


If the above objects are fulfilled then the objects of the Foundation shall be to pursue such purposes in similar cases arising in the United Kingdom, Portugal or elsewhere.