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ThisisBigBrother.com - UK TV Forums (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/index.php)
-   Serious Debates & News (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=61)
-   -   Mass shooting and hostages taken at gay nightclub in Orlando... (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302359)

MB. 12-06-2016 07:40 PM
I think it might be time to separate Serious Debates and News again

ThriceShy 12-06-2016 07:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Who Is She? (Post 8714613)
He was a member of ISIS and he was repulsed by gays.
All Muslims are repulsed by gays. It is part of their religion.

Tom4784 12-06-2016 07:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThriceShy (Post 8714629)
All Muslims are repulsed by gays. It is part of their religion.
Bit of a generalisation there. Every religion going has demonised homosexuality but that doesn't make every religious person a homophobe.

Marsh. 12-06-2016 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThriceShy (Post 8714629)
All Muslims are repulsed by gays. It is part of their religion.
Speaking on behalf of a LOT of people there.

MB. 12-06-2016 07:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThriceShy (Post 8714629)
All Muslims are repulsed by gays. It is part of their religion.
I know plenty of tolerant Muslims, not to mention plenty of non-Muslims (and non-religious people at that) who have homophobia ingrained in their culture. Tarring everybody with the same brush won't resolve anything in the slightest

Firewire 12-06-2016 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThriceShy (Post 8714629)
All Muslims are repulsed by gays. It is part of their religion.
Zayn Malik is a Muslim and loves the gays

ThriceShy 12-06-2016 07:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 8714622)
It's a well known tactic of theirs, if they claim responsibility for every attack going it makes them look more powerful and threatening. Chances are the gunman was acting alone, I doubt very much that IS even knew who this man was never mind being in contact with him. He wasn't working with anyone else, most legitimate IS attacks are organised in groups.

This has all the markings of an act of domestic terrorism rather than Islamic terrorism. To falsely attribute this tragedy to Isis gives them more power.
So it is just coincidence that he claimed to be operating for Isis first. I see.

The truth of the natter will emerge of course as the FBI are now working round the clock to find out exactly who he associated with. He was already known to police as a radical so he must have been up to something.

Trump, IMO has the right idea about not letting Muslims into America now until their reasons are verified and background checked

Smithy 12-06-2016 07:46 PM
Honestly find it hilarious when people say that gun control isn't an issue here, of course it is, whether he was a member of a terrorist organisation or not is irrelevant the fact is that this US CITIZEN easily and legally obtained a firearm and 50 people are dead because of it

MB. 12-06-2016 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThriceShy (Post 8714648)
Trump, IMO has the right idea about not letting Muslims into America now until their reasons are verified and background checked
And that would have prevented this attack by an American Muslim under investigation from the FBI how?

Liberty4eva 12-06-2016 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braden (Post 8714595)
Please explain. I genuinely want to know why.
The most obvious way it is wrong is it is not appropriate to discuss issues like guns when this just happened. Now is the time to mourn.

Firewire 12-06-2016 07:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MB. (Post 8714651)
And that would have prevented this attack by an American Muslim under investigation from the FBI how?
tbh

GiRTh 12-06-2016 07:49 PM
Terrible tragedy.

Firewire 12-06-2016 07:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty4eva (Post 8714653)
The most obvious way it is wrong is it is not appropriate to discuss issues like guns when this just happened. Now is the time to mourn.
So when is the right time? People die from gun crime every day... Of course this is the right time to make a stand.

Marsh. 12-06-2016 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty4eva (Post 8714653)
The most obvious way it is wrong is it is not appropriate to discuss issues like guns when this just happened. Now is the time to mourn.
It's not an appropriate time to discuss gun laws at a time when said laws have caused the deaths of so many innocent people that could've been easily prevented?

:umm2:

ThriceShy 12-06-2016 07:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MB. (Post 8714651)
And that would have prevented this attack by an American Muslim under investigation from the FBI how?
I'd go further. Anyone showing signs of radicalism should be lobbed out. This guy would have been.

A muslim cleric in Orlando in April said that all gays should be murdered. How on earth is he still there

ThriceShy 12-06-2016 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 8714663)
It's not an appropriate time to discuss gun laws at a time when said laws have caused the deaths of so many innocent people that could've been easily prevented?

:umm2:
Did France's complete ban on guns cause the balaclan massacre?:shrug:

Firewire 12-06-2016 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThriceShy (Post 8714666)
I'd go further. Anyone showing signs of radicalism should be lobbed out. This guy would have been.

A muslim cleric in Orlando in April said that all gays should be murdered. How on earth is he still there
You can't be "lobbed out" if you're a native to a country. That's not how it works.

Marsh. 12-06-2016 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThriceShy (Post 8714666)
I'd go further. Anyone showing signs of radicalism should be lobbed out.
If only it were that simple.

Liberty4eva 12-06-2016 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithy (Post 8714649)
Honestly find it hilarious when people say that gun control isn't an issue here, of course it is, whether he was a member of a terrorist organisation or not is irrelevant the fact is that this US CITIZEN easily and legally obtained a firearm and 50 people are dead because of it
I think France has some of the most strict gun laws. Can you explain how this didn't stop the ISIS attack that hit Paris?

Tom4784 12-06-2016 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThriceShy (Post 8714648)
So it is just coincidence that he claimed to be operating for Isis first. I see.

The truth of the natter will emerge of course as the FBI are now working round the clock to find out exactly who he associated with. He was already known to police as a radical so he must have been up to something.

Trump, IMO has the right idea about not letting Muslims into America now until their reasons are verified and background checked
The guy was a mass murderer that wanted attention so I wouldn't take his claims as gospel without proper investigation.

According to reports I've read it stated that he was under investigation but for an unrelated crime, he wasn't on any watchlists as a potential terror suspect. He wasn't known to the authorities as a danger in that regard.

Trump has never had the right idea about anything and using this tragedy to justify your islamaphobia is quite sick.

Marsh. 12-06-2016 07:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThriceShy (Post 8714669)
Did France's complete ban on guns cause the balaclan massacre?:shrug:
I'll give you a chance to make that at all relevant to what I said. Not that I have faith you can.

Firewire 12-06-2016 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty4eva (Post 8714674)
I think France has some of the most strict gun laws. Can you explain how this didn't stop the ISIS attack that hit Paris?
Because they weren't from France

ThriceShy 12-06-2016 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 8714671)
If only it were that simple.
Well you seem to think guns are to blame and not radical Muslims so I expected you to say that.

Marsh. 12-06-2016 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty4eva (Post 8714674)
I think France has some of the most strict gun laws. Can you explain how this didn't stop the ISIS attack that hit Paris?
Nobody is claiming it will stop crime/murder/attacks in their tracks completely. Evil will always be in the world.

But it doesn't have to be as easy, LEGAL, and as common as it is in America for an all out bloodbath.

Marsh. 12-06-2016 07:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThriceShy (Post 8714682)
Well you seem to think guns are to blame and not radical Muslims so I expected you to say that.
I've not said any such things love. Try again.

Black Dagger 12-06-2016 07:56 PM
... this forum.

ThriceShy 12-06-2016 07:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 8714676)
I'll give you a chance to make that at all relevant to what I said. Not that I have faith you can.
France has a gun ban but terrorists shoot people. America allows guns and terrorists shoot people.

Seems like the terrorists are the common link, not the gun laws.

Smithy 12-06-2016 07:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty4eva (Post 8714674)
I think France has some of the most strict gun laws. Can you explain how this didn't stop the ISIS attack that hit Paris?
Because people managed to smuggle arms in across land borders??


You can't compare a country like the US which has HUNDREDS of shootings a year to a country like France where there's stricter gun laws and one mass shooting in recent memory, which was a terrorist attack, it's absurd

The us is the only country with such lax gun laws and the only country where it frequently happens

Tom4784 12-06-2016 07:58 PM
If your argument against gun control is that it won't stop all gun crime then you might as well campaign against all laws since none of them completely stop crime but they do curb it.

Liberty4eva 12-06-2016 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 8714663)
It's not an appropriate time to discuss gun laws at a time when said laws have caused the deaths of so many innocent people that could've been easily prevented?

:umm2:
Yeah, and criminals always obey the gun laws.

Marsh. 12-06-2016 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThriceShy (Post 8714692)
France has a gun ban but terrorists shoot people. America allows guns and terrorists shoot people.

Seems like the terrorists are the common link, not the gun laws.
The terrorists in Paris weren't French and they weren't legally allowed to easily obtain the weapons to cause their destruction with. Hence why it doesn't happen every week over there.

ThriceShy 12-06-2016 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 8714683)
Nobody is claiming it will stop crime/murder/attacks in their tracks completely. Evil will always be in the world.

But it doesn't have to be as easy, LEGAL, and as common as it is in America for an all out bloodbath.
Switzerland has more guns owned per head than America. Yet it has virtually no gun crime

Marsh. 12-06-2016 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberty4eva (Post 8714699)
Yeah, and criminals always obey the gun laws.
Yeah, just as everyone always obeys all laws.

But I'd take incidents like this being a shocking rarity over a sad weekly occurrence.

ThriceShy 12-06-2016 08:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 8714702)
The terrorists in Paris weren't French and they weren't legally allowed to easily obtain the weapons to cause their destruction with. Hence why it doesn't happen every week over there.
You think it is difficult for terrorists to obtain guns in a country that bans them?

Marsh. 12-06-2016 08:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThriceShy (Post 8714703)
Switzerland has more guns owned per head than America. Yet it has virtually no gun crime
And my neighbour owns more cars than everyone in my family. Your point?

ThriceShy 12-06-2016 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 8714706)
Yeah, just as everyone always obeys all laws.

But I'd take incidents like this being a shocking rarity over a sad weekly occurrence.
Terror attacks happen no more often in America than they do in France.

Marsh. 12-06-2016 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThriceShy (Post 8714712)
You think it is difficult for terrorists to obtain guns in a country that bans them?
You think every horrid case of mass shootings in America is some major global terrorist group?

Do some research.

Marsh. 12-06-2016 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThriceShy (Post 8714725)
Terror attacks happen no more often in America than they do in France.
Gun crime and mass death happens more often in America at the hands of regular citizens than it does a "terrorist".

Tom4784 12-06-2016 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThriceShy (Post 8714703)
Switzerland has more guns owned per head than America. Yet it has virtually no gun crime
Incorrect. In terms of guns per capita, the US dwarfs everyone else and is double the size of Switzerland's.

ThriceShy 12-06-2016 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 8714724)
And my neighbour owns more cars than everyone in my family. Your point?
The point is that it must be the people not the guns.


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