Why? Why are they scumbags?

They lost a relative, and people act in very very diffferent ways to bereavment.

Why are the locals so worked up about it, none if them died.

State of the pair of them.

Tbf it was just one man out with a scissors in a knitted cap pulled over his eyes, (could have been LT in a certain light) then more flowers went up, some florist is making a mint

they lost nothing but a feral nomark career cowardly criminal who preyed on pensioners - a man who offered nothing to society, paid no tax, stole most for what he had.

horrible man and horrible family

Because the pensioners can’t return to their home for fear of reprisals, imagine it was your Mum, would you be happy, that man will probably have nightmares after killing that guy, it’s not something he will forget over night

That poor old man could easily have died of shock/heart attack - neither the scumbag or his scumbag relatives would have given a damn about him or his family. Waste of space the lot of them.

The local people are angry because they probably knew the gentleman who lived there and liked him and through absoloutely no fault of his or his wifes doing they are now too scared to return home.

These ignorant twats showing up with flowers are doing it to show they know where the poor old couple live.

Horrible man admittedly, but he was still someones laddie..

I still dont get how those 2 are scum though.

That poor old man managed just fine in the situation.

Well if all thats true then they are indeed the scum of the earth...


But is it?

The point being that the thug didn’t know that did he. HE was deliberately targeting easy targets because he was a coward- he just got more than he bargained for.

I get all that.

But i am surprised at this old trooper being described as disabled, defenceless and poor old.

But my main issue here is people grieving being called scum.

So unless what amy jade says is correct then this is just another attack on 2 people because they are travellers.



Didn't Hughie teach us anything...aww hughie..what a guy.:dance:

I love how these cowardly twots always turn up to rob and burgle in PAIRS or more, and are always ARMED with some type of weapon despite their victims often being lone women or lone old men or elderly couples.

They are making a statement though Parmy, you grieve quietly and privately. How many times do families say please respect our privacy at this time. This isn't an act of grieving, it's a very public act of provocation. And a two fingers up at the gentleman who fought for his life and ended up killing someone in self defence and his community. We know where you live they are saying.

Travellers grieve fairly publicly as far as im aware and the women are fairly spiritual. Maybe they might see that as his spirits resting place...i see a lot of flowers on trees and lamposts round here..whatever it is..no-one and i mean no-one can tell another person how they should grieve.

...I do understand Parmy..and that the travelling community and families may have traditional ways of expressing grief publicly also etc...but I think this is in context of other things also, the flowers being put on the fence...?...I’m not sure of the accuracy of all reporting but ‘death threats’ are also being made and the couple have had to be moved to a safe house...

Yes but whos to say the grieving family have anything to do with the death threats?

From my own experiences i am very aware of internet and life trolls latching onto any news story thats been so public so they can then be the sick and twisted individuals they are by contacting people involved to harrass and upset them...

I may be wrong, and it may well be the family if the stories are true....but to just jump in and hang them before a trial saddens me as i just see it as peoples prejudice and intolerance to travellers.

That is a good point Parmy

The travelers are making a point, and you can make your own mind up over it's legitimacy. I take the view that they are sticking 2 fingers up at the establishment because that's what they always do.

..yeah I’m completely with you, Parmy...there may have been death threats to the couple ...but not from the family and loved ones necessarily or any of the travelling community...and I don’t think media reporting helps with these things either...’the twisted individuals’ as you call them...with the family placing flowers, the ladies..?...all I can see on their faces is sadness and grief because of their loss...

They weren't being fairly spiritual when they robbed my garage. Or when they left a site about a mile from me covered in disgusting crap, bags of dirty nappies, builders rubbish... and then there are those who are nicking people's pet dogs out of their front gardens to use as bait dogs. A BIG problem where I live. Sometimes they just can't be allowed to have their own way.

If this old man was your relative, Parm, you'd be singing a quite different song.

Having dealt with quite a few traveller families in my job (I work in a supermarket on the cigarette kiosk) I can say most I come in contact with do not seem religious, especially when they call me horrible names for asking them for ID or when they threaten to hit me or wait for me after work when I take stickers for 50p they have put on clothing that costs £20 and they try to intimidate me me into allowing the sale even though they have been seeing on camera doing it.

Wasn't one of the big things in the bible that you do not lie, steal or hurt anyone? Well their 'hero' relative was a theif. If they are religious then they should know that he reserved his place in hell years ago.

Glad to see their flowers were ripped down again.

Exactly what I think.

The home owner simply defended himself, his wife and his property. He only stabbed the intruder once so he clearly never meant to kill him. The family should keep away from the victims house, out of respect but they seemingly have no respect and therefore a huge majority are struggling to bare any sympathy for them.

around where I work the problem is how they treat their horses, they dump them on other peoples/companies land without adequate food or security, they end up walking around the roads alot of times. A friend of mine and her husband have started a group that goes round feeding them and arranging vet care for them. Sulky racing is a big problem too, just down the road from where I work last week one of the horses collapsed on the road while they were in a sulky, they just unclipped him from it and left him there on the road to die. It's heart breaking

Disgusting. I don't know if it's the same in Ireland, but the police are scared of confronting them. Last year in Cromer - a costal town - the place was all but shut down when the travellers arrived... and it was like an invasion. And where were the police? Nowhere. Afterwards they apologised and said that lessons had been learned, etc... but the fact is that the locals had to fend for themselves.

And as AJ was saying about the supermarket... I've seen them descend on a supermarket en masse and the staff have had to follow them round the shop. There's also been a spate of them nicking stuff from charity shops. Charity shops!

A Labrador was stolen from my local village. Eight years old, beloved family pet... taken by travellers and used as a bait dog in a dog fight. The owners were distraught as you can imagine. Another part of the traveller culture we're not supposed to interfere with?

Conversely, not far from me, not even a mile, is a Romany camp. It's immaculate and they're really nice people, their kids go to the local school, they use the local pubs and there has never been a problem with them.

Travellers cannot continue to be a law unto themselves, and hanging flowers outside this couple's house was a provocative act.

I never have trouble with the traveller types in my place, usually friendly and polite (although tbqfh, some of them I can't understand a word they're saying). But there aren't a HUGE number of them (a couple of families) and also... They know they'll get kicked out in a second and they need their Roulette fix, so perhaps on their best behaviour.

I can see both sides of this really. The guy who was killed was indeed pretty much a "scum bag" if such terms must be used, or at the very least engaging in some very scummy activity and no one can really be all that SURPRISED or angry that he ended up getting himself killed. That's pretty much how it goes if you choose to be a career criminal. You end up in prison or dead. However, he wasn't exactly a serial killer or "monster", just a crappy and immoral person, so I fully understand that his family will be devastated and grieve for him. He may well have been a loving father/son/friend... People are complicated. Suggesting that they shouldn't grieve, or shouldn't want to, is insane.

However... There's no need at all for this display of grief to be put on in the street where he was terrorising an elderly couple and got himself stabbed. You could argue that they didn't realise it was inappropriate... If they had just done it once... But at this point, the display has been taken down multiple times, but they keep putting it back up. They clearly know its causing upset and distress. Maybe it didn't start out as threatening or conflict driven, maybe they really didn't understand that it would cause conflict and are now feeling defiant and persecuted... But at this point it definitely is conflict driven and intended to prove something. If I lived there, I would definitely be concerned about the possibility for it escalating.

No one's suggesting people "shouldn't grieve". They need to find some other way of doing it instead of harassing the victims of a crime.

Do you think hitler had the right idea which was to murder them all like he did with the Jews.

Good and bad in every culture.

Do you think it's right to compare the Travellers to the Jews?

and I think you'll find it was the Roma people who were gassed... the travellers were probably still in neutral Ireland.

Yeah same here alright. And the whole reason there is such a massive "us and them" divide and why people might come across as generalising is because they don't seem to have to follow the same rules as everyone else in the country. If I had a horse and treated him the way they do with theirs, I'd be arrested and probably never allowed keep one again, they get to keep theirs on other peoples land and not feed them etc

I remember when I worked for an MP, if ever the traveller community had an issue, they'd turn up in a large crowd, with a copy of the Human Rights Act under their arm. It's a shame that since the act was introduced it's been mostly used to help scumbags get their own way.

Of course there are good and bad in every culture - where did anyone say differently - but this family are a pretty unpleasant bunch known for not only targeting and stealing from the elderly whilst armed they are now attempting to intimidate the elderly VICTIM of a member of their family for defending himself.

It seems it doesn’t matter how badly people behave there will always be someone to defend them - that is what I find sad.

Some travellers around here robbed a charity shop too, Livia. Claire House, a charity for dying children.

They were seen parked behind by people in the pubs across the road and they raised the police, the police came over an hour later. Some people from the pub told them who it was and the woman who ran the charity shop had CCTV of them inside the shop but nothing came of it, don't even think it was investigated.

They all lie for each other. And you know, I'm sure none of us want to tell anyone else how to live their lives, but cruelty to animals, thieving and all the other things they're famous for is totally unacceptable. If they cleaned up their act people wouldn't have such a huge problem with them. And really, stealing from a charity for dying children really is as low as you can go. And then they make a big thing about going to church. Incredible.

OMG Niamh ,that is so sad,Can I ask what is Sulky racing ? it sounds awful,I think most of us know travellers that have been rude,and filthy,not all of them but a lot don't care about anyone other than themselves.

I think some people are just more inclined to see things in shades of grey... Nothing is ever simple. And also it's not about "defending" anyone, this is a misunderstanding I keep encountering, the idea that being interested in the complexities of human psychology is "making excuses!" when it really isn't.

Here's a video of a race on a really busy road, very close to where I work

Oh Jeez,those poor horses must be so scared,Is it against the law there? Looks pretty dangerous for other drivers too

This is what I'm saying, if I went out on one of them, I'd absolutely get arrested and charged........

When they rob charity shops, leave rubbish and **** all over public spaces, burgle people, and smash pubs up, there's no point looking for shades of grey or complexities of human psychology.