...wow that’s powerful stuff, he has such passion..:love:..I agree with everything he says...Trump’s mindset is sadly an echo of what must be in so many hearts...it’s interesting what he says of ‘its every generation’...I haven’t known a regression like this before...

That is very powerful, I've said on this forum many times I feel there is a similar undercurrent in England, so much of what he said can ve mirrored here. There are still colonialist attitudes here, right now they are at the fore, the most evident and apparent they've been since Edwardian times imo.
Trump being not to blame is to an extent true, same with Johnson here they are figureheads for a movement.
A collective malaise that has always been around but more adequately suppressed.

i don't think it is a regression sadly. Everything in America has been papering over the cracks. Trump is a symptom, not the cause unfortunately.

I think we are seeing the same effect across europe too

...that’s it though, Bots..(...I don’t know if regression is the correct thought but..)....there are generations who would have given no credence to a Donald Trump...no validation at all..?...those cracks would not be screaming so loud and proud as they are today in this generation..?...and similar in Europe, as you say...there has to be a reason for that...

...the power of his words is still ringing with me...

i think there are generations where their thoughts have been suppressed. Donald Trump came along and they have once again been able to voice their thoughts. Donald Trump is in power because of years of suppression. The dems can moan all they like, but they are responsible for people finally saying enough is enough, I will be heard and the result is Trump. Trump has a support base of around 30% of the population. In normal circumstances that wouldn't be enough to win, but throw Clinton into the mix, a dose of Russian interference and you have a Trump win. People should not rely on democracy to remove Trump either. He will use every trick in the book to win in 2020 and if he was prepared to play dirty before, be in no doubt it will be a lot worse in 2020.

The dems are responsible for what, exactly?

For continually turning the screw on how people should behave

...that doesn’t make sense though bots...to lay any responsibility on the dems in the way you’ve said...I mean to me..?..that like saying for instance...’I’m giving you all equal pay for an equivalent job’ etc...creating equality...and then screams of...OMG how very dare you...if this equality creates prejudice, this is going to be all your doing and on your head..:fist:...generation after generation have strived for equality..equality in race, in religion, in culture etc...how could that possibly create bigotry and prejudice like we are sometimes witnessing now...it is a regression because voices of prejudice are being validated...

I'm sorry Bots, but that is absurd. You're going to need to expand on that with examples of what on earth you're talking about.

it makes a lot of sense Ammi. For years, it wasn't just the dems, but they were the worst. People were told how to think and how to behave. There is a limit to how long that is sustainable. If people aren't progressing economically at the rate they expect they become disillusioned very quickly. People saw the choices offered by the dems and the GOP and said enough is enough. Trump came along and gave this 30% something to focus on ... a target to blame for all their misfortune.

In the same way here, MP's have never been more poorly thought of, they are just not seen as representatives of the people any more. All people see is people playing politics for their own gain ... and it's a recipe for disaster. When the next election comes, hold on to your hat, because it's going to be a very bumpy ride

You mean inconveniencing bigots?

calling people bigots at every possible opportunity sure doesn't help

Maybe if they stopped acting like bigots it may help :shrug:

the moment someone gets called a bigot, that's it, the argument is lost. There will never be an opportunity to win that person round by reasoned argument. All it is doing is re-enforcing a divide. It is a term that gets thrown around much to easily

Calling someone a bigot is just a demonstration of the persons own intolerance

You assume a good will on the part of bigots. That's not my experience sadly. They just want to destroy any progress we've made since the war. And if you support progress you're called virtue signalling or a snowflake. Even the terms they invented are designed to mock and undermine. They want to fight, not talk.

And the conservative right NEVER do that .... hmm
They would never make suggestions like people from other cultras can integrate, or that singles sex couples shouldn't raise children, that lone parents can't raise children adequately, that those on welfare are a drain on society...

Sometimes you have to say it like it is ...if someone says some ting clearly bigoted then they shouldn't be surprised if they are called a bigot...
I'm not expecting them to like it, however there is as seen on that vid an urgent need to call out some of the inherent prejudice we exhibit now.
You can't be intolerant of intolerance that makes no sense whatsoever.

Instead of lazy scapegoating that had been going on for years it has to be shown that the real reason for socioeconomic economic decline comes from successive governments making bad decisions, the banks unregulated errors, pointless wars...

Calling someone like Trump or his followers a bigot will just entrench views, it won't change anything. I don't know how people can't see that by using that type of argument at every possible opportunity, their position is strengthened. They thrive on polarisation and division and calling someone a bigot is playing right in to their hands

There's been study after study since the 90's about violence and video games and they've all proven that there's no link. It's easier to blame video games then it is to blame the people lobbying your party to kill off gun control, I guess.

And just watching him perpetuate stereotypes... what will that do exactly?
It's exposing... it's showing we see through the smokescreen and refuse to accept it to corrupt another generations psyche... That's what we SHOULD be doing, how do you suggest that is achieved without addressing theit use of division and rhetoric bots? ... I'm all ears.

Well every country has video games not every country has crazy gun control laws like the USA, the USA seems to be the only one with big mass shooting problems....it's that simple

One has to use reasoned argument .... not for the ears of Trump, but for the ears of the general population. Getting all hot and bothered won't win any argument.

Yup, but why face those facts when NRA is donating endlessly to get what it wants?

Gun laws that Trump repealed out of pettiness towards Obama could have saved lives here. His rhetoric inspired these shootings and his actions made it so that it was easier for these monsters to do what they did.

It's so stupid when the answer is so ****ing obvious but people continue to act like it's not that at all :laugh:

Well go on elaborate... explain what reasoned argument is?
If you explain to someone their views come across as bigoted then is that not reasoned?
How has reasoned argument aided anyone I'm all seriousness in any challenge to the status quo in recent years?
Any reasoned argument has been met with mockery and derision... They were social justice warriors, virtue signallers sat in ' ivory towers', snow flakes ... and the bigger threat of all: Experts, that 'people' are allegedly sick of!
Is it not time now for a change of tactic?

I mean the gun use has been made out to be a great freedom issue
It was true when America was a frontier country, wild west etc. It's not the case now.
Sadly, banning guns completely won't work though as all those nutters and survivalists would turn their compounds into fortresses and spill blood fighting the feds.
But incremental removal of the most deadly types of weapons while tightening the gun laws is doable if there's a political will.

i think i've explained my point very clearly. I can't make you accept it

What alternative reality do you hail from, bots, where the general population is interested in "reasoned argument"?

And is your realm accepting asylum applications?

You havent, you've said very little not very well.

and that's why there is no point discussing anything with you

I'm not the only one who thinks your generalised ' reasoned argument' suggestion is piss poor,unless you can explain what in your mind constitutes a reasoned argument? One that won't be shot down as any of the examples I stated earlier...
The fact is you can't, so you end the debate which is fine, except you're atempting to blame me for your short comings and I'm not willing to accept that.

You can't have reasoned debate with irrational people and a lot of Trump's base is irrational and beyond reason at this point. I think a lot of other people who ended up voting for him last time who aren't extreme in their views have probably turned their back on him by now. The only people left on his side are the extreme elements who can't really be reasoned with.

Trump has a base of 30% and it doesn't matter what is said, they will always support him. The moment someone throws bigot or whatever generalised insult at them, the undecided then need to make a yes or no choice .... Is he a bigot or not. Throwing that term around is a cop out, there is much more chance of someone taking offence if they even slightly agree with Trump and are by association being classed as a bigot thus bringing more to the side of Trump.

Use reasoned argument, it's not so clear cut, people don't feel the need to join with and support "the bigot". It's non polarising, it avoids creating division.

At the moment, most of the dems are falling for it every time

Don't call rapists, rapists said the concerned citizen; they won't realise rape is wrong if you call them out for rape.

We are not politicians so we can afford talking straight
I agree that Dems need to address the same issues as trump does, but in a measured way
But, they also need to call out his demagoguery and hate-mongering.

The argument is actually over when a bigot defends their views with bigotry, not once they’re called a bigot.

I’d imagine the bigot would then kick up a fuss which is probably why you’ve said what you’ve said cos the discussion will turn to squabbles. But na, they lose when they bring outdated views to the present day.

In your first sentence you are kind of agreeing with TS that the 30% wont hear reasoned arguments. Define 'reasoned argument' please cuz I'm not sure what you mean. I hear alot of reasoned arguments answered by that 30% with outrageous bias.

Regarding anyone who aligns themselves with Donnies rhetoric. I dont deny there are immigration issues all over the world but to talk of an 'invasion' and 'infestation' I dont think reasonable people align themselves with such views.

Yes he loves talking before he Fly's off
to meet the Mayor in El Paso. today.

Not rapists, but people with non-consensual sex preference. We mustn't forgo a reasoned dialogue :laugh: