...yeah, Dear Zachary isn’t an easy watch, Josy...just to say...it really does depict evil in human...

Absolutely heartbreaking and yes definitely not an easy watch, the tears are steaming down my face

..:hug:..David and Kate Bagby are such incredibly inspirational people...I found this small update on their lives from January of this year...

https://www.thechronicleherald.ca/ne...ce=parsely-api

youtube comments are the scurge, how anyone could excuse what he did is honestly beyond me, if you are unhappy you can leave those poor little girls especially did nothing but love him, anyone who can take a child's life is evil.

And not just any child but your own child, I just can't get my head around it and throwing their little bodies in oil tanks, its just so cold

Smithy you will like this, a really creepy coincidence involving the CCTV footage and AHS. When they're finished looking at the video an advert pops up on the screen (3.18) of a fetus which is actually an ad for AHS, the full ad is eerily similar to stuff Chris did :skull: Coincidence or a message from Shan'ann?

Mess lemme perch this later

Just watch from 3.18 on wards

....something that a friend said when he watched it...’maybe he was a master manipulator’....it was when we were talking about the woman he was seeing, Nichol and whether she knew more...?...but he wasn’t a master manipulator, was he...I mean, he couldn’t manipulate Shanann into not realising his affair, he was so obvious in that he refused all physical/intimate contact with her...and in the interview, it was a very short time until he admitted the murder of the girls as well ...so he couldn’t really keep up a ‘manipulation’ with his dad of his dad thinking that Shanann had killed the girls....so he was a pretty awful manipulator...and yet something as awful as this/his intentions...and Nichol had no inklings...?...

I followed this when it happened and have watched all the bodycam footage and interviews. I don't think Nichol had anything to do with it, other than the affair of course.

In his prison interview they ask him about the theories, and you can just tell he's not hiding anything. He gave himself away through his actions the whole case, so no way he wouldn't have given himself away in this, too.

I still think there was more to it with Nichol, she deleted all their texts and she was very evasive in her interviews, always spending ages talking about stuff that didn't matter but forgetting a lot of conversations she had with Chris. She's hiding something imo, it may not be to do with the murders even but she was definitely hiding something from the Police officers imo

...yeah that’s one thing we can say, I think...he was an awful manipulator from the off...his affair was so obvious because he didn’t manipulate is the thing...

Yeah I agree with you, he wasn't clever or a manipulator imo It seemed like he didn't think the murders through at all

If you suddenly suspected the man you were having an affair with, wiped out his family, I think it's probably 50:50 between those that would delete everything and those that wouldn't. I've no doubt she's hiding things. It's pretty natural. They were in a new relationship, so there's probably some really dodgy stuff that's personal between them, that none of us would want getting out in that situation.

She did go to the police voluntarily before they even knew about her. I think in cases this horrific, it's natural to look for other things because it just doesn't make sense that he did what he did.

I would like to think I'd definitely not delete stuff that could help Police convict him tbh

Regarding her going to Police before they knew about her, I've read reports that they did know about her before she came forward. Also, they were in a new relationship but she had googled both Chris and Shan'ann up to a year before the relationship started and before Chris even knew her which is really really odd :

The discovery documents examined by CrimeOnline included a “Phone Data Review,” which showed the internet search history of principals in the case, including Kessinger. The recovered phone data, which included some entries that had been deleted from her search history, appear to show that Kessinger did online searches for the names Shanann Watts and Chris Watts as far back as 2017, and on multiple occasions before both she and Chris Watts said their affair began. A records supervisor initially told CrimeOnline that an entry for a Google search of Shanann Watts in September 2017 was a “typo” in the report. But Weld County District Attorney Michael Rourke later said, in a December 2018 interview with CrimeOnline, that the items in the report accurately reflected what was found in the data review.
https://www.crimeonline.com/2020/10/...an-she-let-on/

I don't think he was any kind of manipulator. He didn't cover his tracks in anyway - even the bedsheet he wrapped her in, he left at the work site. He didn't have any kind of plan for any of it. He may have been planning on working it out after work, but Shannan's nicole put an end to that.

The excuse he gave at the station was only his excuse because the detective gave it to him as part of the interrogation, and he latched on to it because he knew they didn't believe in his innocence. Even after the polygraph, all he had to do was walk out as a free man, and lawyer up. He was just too frazzled by that point to even know what he was doing.

She deleted it before she knew he was guilty (it was on the first night), and I think it's a human thing to do. I'd like to think I'd have kept all the info too, but honestly, it's such a crazy pressurised situation, I just don't know how panic and everything sets in.

They obviously both lied about the start date of them seeing each other, and probably a lot of other things too, like the fact she said she didn't know they were pregnant - which is obvious bollocks.

They may have known about her, but she came forward before they needed to look for her. Even the police officer admitted that in one of her crazy interviews.

That just seems like self preservation though, she knew they would get around to her eventually, it looks better if you come forward yourself.

Chris still denies that they were seeing each other any earlier though (what difference does it make when they started the affair/why lie about that?) and I believe him because you could see how obsessed he was with her, he couldn't even pretend with Shan'ann once he started this thing with Nichol and I don't for a second believe he would have agreed to have a baby with Shan'ann (which he did) had he already been seeing Nichol. And he was actually asked about those google searches from the year before and he had no idea why she would have done that considering they didn't even know each other back then, nichol wasn't even working in Chris's company then. The only explanation Chris could think of was that she may have heard of Shan'ann because of her online work and presence

You can look at everything she does as self preservation from the moment it kicks off, including deleting stuff from her phone. Even without the guilt of involvement she knows instantly that her life has changed forever, because she was the other women in a family wipeout case, and no one ever comes out clean. She looked up other cases where this happened on that night - including how much money one of them made from book sales.

There's something definitely off about her, but I don't believe she had any involvement in what happened, even just through suggestion.

I don't think she told him to kill his family however it's mentioned a lot by her to both Chris and a female friend of hers that she's a bit obsessed with "firsts" that Chris has already been married and has kids, she actually told Chris at one point that she wanted to give him his first son. I wonder if there was a lot of comments like that to Chris did he then get the idea that he should kill them all so Nichol could have his "firsts" instead? (obviously this is all speculation on my part and even if it's true wouldn't mean it's Nichols fault) But yeah i don't know, there's something really weird about her maybe not criminally weird but off putting certainly. I mean, if Chris's guess is right, that Nichol knew who Shan'ann was before she knew Chris, did she possibly fall for Chris from a far through Shan'ann's social media? Could she have purposely tried to get a job where he worked in order to pursue him? That would be messed up

...(..I read..)..apparently he gets ‘fan mail’ in prison, which is something that’s quite common ...and he’s said that he thinks that one of the females writing to him is Nichol...so he may still be ‘fixated’ on her...

Apparently, he still says he loves her yeah.........all while having photographs of Shan'ann, Bella and Celeste in his cell. Sick ****er

Just so many things that were left unanswered so we all fill in the blanks. I think because everything is so public, it's made it harder to accept that we don't know everything, when these cases are probably always left with loads of questions but we don't have a fraction of the info to go on.

Oh I know that but these things are fascinating all the same, I can't help speculating :laugh:

Ok and this is a big speculation but I wonder was what she was hiding that she was the one who gave Chris both the idea and drug to try and cause Shan'ann to miscarry so that Nichol could have his "first son" instead. One story that both Chris and Nichols version of events match up is that they had an argument one time while Shan'ann was away for those few weeks, they argued in Chris and Shan'anns house, could she have discovered while there that Shan'ann was having a boy and maybe she had a meltdown about that. We know it was while Chris went to Shan'ann's parents that he gave her the first dose of that poison

Agreed. Anything to do with killers and their psychology, I'm there.

He obviously has some developmental issues and is probably along the sociopath spectrum somewhere. I just don't know how anyone could do this, but not to even have a cleanup plan suggests to me, he had it in his head, and then he snapped.

Thankfully if we ever go into the murdering business, our years of watching dexter will stand us in good stead.

I do think it was premeditated however he's either a total moron and had absolutely no plan about alibi's, getting the bodies out of the house without being obvious, excuses to tell her numerous friends, family & followers etc etc or (probably more likely, as you said) he was planning it but snapped too early and without preparation

If I remember correctly, Shanann didn't even know she was having a boy that early as she wanted a surprise at their gender reveal party initially, so she gave her results to the other Nicole. it was only when they cancelled that party that she found out.

I may be misremembering things though.

I thought she knew and the gender reveal party was for her friends and family? isn't that how they usually work? (not that I ever knew anyone who had one :laugh: )

That's why it stood out to me, because she wanted to wait.

I need to find this out now or it will bug me.

I'm trying to find out now too. The most i can find is someone saying she had a baby boy picture frame in her office at home with the ultra sound picture in it, but that's just a person's comment on a youtube video

It must be from Nicoles police interviews so I'll have a look.

You're right actually, this was sent a week before she was murdered :

https://i.imgur.com/O9TtWrW.jpg

Although, just because she didn't know for sure if the baby was a boy or girl doesn't mean that my theory couldn't be true either :

Watts has also confessed that he slipped oxycodone to Shanann several weeks before the murders, hoping to cause her to miscarry.
I thought it would be easier to be with Nichol if Shanann wasn’t pregnant.
According to Cheryln Cadle, Watts told her that his girlfriend wanted to be the one to give him a son.
https://medium.com/honestly-yours/wh...s-2a90a9a88745

Good find. I thought I'd seen that was the case, but it's 2 years ago now. She was 15 weeks pregnant when they were murdered in August, and they were in SC in June I think, so they wouldn't have been able to tell the sex at 7 weeks.

I think that Cheryin - if it's the author I'm thinking of, has been largely discredited, and found to be making loads of stuff up - although again, I may be misremembering that too.

I didn't hear anything like that anytime I've seen her book referenced, they were based on his letters to her

Her book has been pulled from loads of places like Amazon, because she was found plagiarizing other peoples work for her books.

The letters from Chris are genuine though which is where that quote is from

The interview I posted is about the letters book (I think).