WHERE is the homophobia :joker:. Is it because I pointed out that young male sex workers are usually paid for by old men, just like young female sex workers are usually paid for by old men. That is called a FACT Liam and has nothing to do with homophobia, it's purely pointing out that it's men doing the objectifying.

Feel free to call it misandry, which would be accurate. I'm actually saying that these old blokes are all the same, gay or straight. Not sure how that's homophobia but the lack of comprehension is par for the course so we'll let it slide eh.

I'm actually pretty against porn and prostitution these days but I think it's pretty crude to draw an equivalence between that and this. Those two things do way more societal harm. I know it's being presented as a 'slippery slope' or 'thin end of the wedge' type thing but it that's the case then where does that wedge or slope begin? People are always going to be attracted to other people and there will always be industries which capitalise on that one way or another. It happens all throughout acting, singing, modelling etc.

Men are all dirty, evil perverts (except for QB because he’s the perfect bastion or morality and sensibilities) and women are dainty, easily manipulated fairies who don’t know what they’re doing and should be protected from themselves if they do things that QB doesn’t agree with

yep, floundering around after being exposed

pathetic

It begins when it's gratuitously commoditised for money as the singular scope of what it is. Which this unambiguously is. Yes singers/actors/etc are sexualised and there's far more grey area there, because the sexualisation is being used to attract to the product, is isn't THE product in and of itself.

There is zero reason for the walk-on girls other than "to be looked at". They serve no purpose in darts. Zero. It literally is "extremely light porn". And it's not really about it being a slippery slope, more about insidious normalisation of mindset.

It's clear as day in this thread, and the defensiveness and frustration bursting out all over the place only serves to prove that.

People like their cummies, but they don't want to feel grubby about it.

Tough :shrug: it's gross. Sex and sexiness is great. Find a partner. Heck, go out and have a series of flings - each to their own. Stop making it a product to ogle on telly/at sports matches/to outright pay for. It's not complicated at all.

Not sure you can compare walk on girls who are basically advertising the sponsor to porn and prostitution? what about models who sashay down the catwalk wearing Alexander McQueen would you compare that to porn and prostitution? what about models on TV adverts, again are they there to be drooled over by 60 somethings, I think you are over exaggerating the effect these women have on men tbh

They're there to advertise the sponsor... William Hill... I mean if you can suggest how the two things are related?

But anyway yes lots of advertising is indeed exploitative (of all sorts of people and things). That would be a much bigger discussion. Fashion is a bit of a grey area but tbh again, I don't think the fashion industry holds up very well under a little scrutiny either. I mean... At least the porn industry doesn't require people to starve themselves on top of everything else.

I literally have zero interest in anything you have to say, Trumpet. You may continue to snipe from the sidelines, I'm not going to block you but I hand on heart promise that I'm not going to lower myself to engaging with you on any topic, ever. You revealed yourself to be worse than I actually thought during the England riots, if that's at all possible. It goes a bit beyond the usual forum nonsense really, doesn't it. You should be permanently banned. I'm going to pretend that you are. That shall be all.

oh it hurts when you are the subject..

re-read the thread m8

its all on you

own it

I'm talking about the men in speedos.

I agree with most of this post.

The only part that I don't agree with, is I think that the Darts want the walk on girls back for "eye candy" reasons, and personally I don't see the issue with that reason.

In my personal view whether the Darts wants them or not doesn't affect my personal enjoyment of the Darts (my type tend to mostly be in the Music scene anyway) so I'm not really getting that much gratification out of having walk on girls in Darts personally.

But I also don't get the drama of women (or men if they were to ever do that equivalent) having an extra job opportunity? We're not an Islamic or Evangelical state.:laugh:

Taylor Swift wears less on stage.

Sam Smith wears less than Swift.

I think that I can understand your view tbh.

And I agree that it's not really needed.

Woman are such victims these days. I'm old enough to know and remember strong women. Not the fake strong of today. When they just say they're strong, but the reality is they have to be defended on nonsense things like this.

I blame the demise of humour.

I can accept that tbf.:laugh:

I'm 28 at the moment, and I do kind of have my own cut off point for myself.

Like for me whilst I can find 16-18 year olds attractive, I would never actually enter a sexual encounter with someone in that age group.

Fair enough to anyone that's in my age group that is okay with that, but it's not for me.

You don't see the issue with the concept of "eye candy" because you yourself enjoy it and you don't want to have to stop enjoying it, because you have no alternative frame of reference.

You might be a dad to girls one day and then I think (hope) you might see things differently, and when men your own age are drooling at girls your daughter's age, you might understand the issue.

Some dads still don't, unfortunately, but hey.

Tbh I never pay the girls any attention at the men's Sporting events, and that's the truth.

Like I know that F1 I think have those flag girls before the race starts, and I honestly can't remember a single one of them.:laugh:

We love eye candy.

As the Rolling Stones once said

"I see the girls go by dressed in their Summer clothes"

We don't try to stop you ogling Sam Smith, so give us the same courtesy and the World will be a more tolerant place.

Attempt to stop being intolerant if you can, for all our sakes, basically.

Don't think I will stop being intolerant of slimey old geezers Alf, no.

By "all our sakes" I assume that's who you're referring to. The smelly old gits perving on young women who want to do it without judgement. Nah. I'm judging.

Listen, they are not kids forever they grow and most start having sex in their late teens just like their parents did

All this focus on older men drooling over twenty’s something girls is bollox
Because those girls are more than likely sucking on a cock and as disgusting as it will to the fathers of those girls it’s no different to when the parents were at the same age

Sex is part of the human race

Once again, no one is being puritan about people enjoying sex, it's not the same thing as it being sold to sad old gits as a product/service. Obviously that's a reality of the human race too - but it's a bloody sad reality, and something being commonplace doesn't mean we have to accept it as normal.

You need to accept that being attracted to the opposite sex is part of being a human and that will never change

You can take it all round the houses , with it’s not this it’s that but it’s human nature

I'm not sure that he likes Human nature. He's borderline Communist.

It’s a very unrealistic outlook by him when people are agreeing with you :joker:

Again that's not what's being discussed, there's no issue with human sexuality there is an issue with it being transactional and objectifying (mostly) women.

"That's not human nature, that's COMMUNISM!" is up there with your more bizarre statements Alf. Have you been studying Locke? Capitalism as human nature? I didn't take you for such a philospher. And American colonial philosophy at that. Maybe that part isn't surprising :joker:.

Apparently I've managed to unite every man on the forum under one banner of misogyny, even Liam joined in to fight for women's right to engage in sex work (because it's empowering, did you know).

It's quite heartwarming really. You could all go to the darts together and peek at some empowered ladies while they walk the men in. Liam can tell them they're empowered. Parmy can go to a business meeting with them. It'll be great.

:laugh:

I'm actually with Quantum Boy on this issue.

Sorry what age are you 'smelly old gits', honestly you really haven't got a leg to stand on at this stage, women want to walk on stage promoting the sponsor wearing a dress, and gasp showing a bit of cleavage .... sorry Mr Victorian or should I call you Mr Burkah, but yeah its going to happen :hee: Walking around in a dress is not sex work....no matter how you twist it

The man who doesn’t think women have the agency to control their own body and do the careers they want to do calls everyone else misogynists

You've managed to find issue with female members on here as well over this tbf

Thing is I don't think anyone here actually cares about walk on girls, it's just the pearl clutching and false equivalences that are a bit ott

Again apparently it's not about age but you're portraying it as if these are very young woman being preyed on or as if they're still children under their parents protection.

If your daughter is 36 years old I think they're a bit too old for their Dad to be controlling who's looking at them or how they behave

It has absolutely nothing to do with controlling the women and everything to do with holding the men to account when they're being gross old pervs. I know people struggle to get their heads around that, the vast majority of people (especially blokes). Therein lies the problem. I don't judge women for taking advantage of this as a source of money in the slightest, including media objectification, OnlyFans, full porn, even outright prostitution (yes they are all different degrees of the same thing). But I find it eternally grim that it IS a source of money.

I've not once and never will say, "These women shouldn't be selling this as a product or making money from it".

I wll never stop saying "I wish it wasn't a viable career path, because I wish the world wasn't full of the sort of men who are buying it".

I also know it never will be.

But that doesn't mean I'll ever say "Aww it's OK lads it's normal; go ahead."

It shouldn't be normalised. It's sad, and gross. I get why people have a visceral objection to that opinion, if they happen to have a creepy gaze themselves, or a wandering hand. Tough.

I also have zero comprehension of why you think adults can't be exploited, but that's a whole different debate.

I'll just direct you both to the above post. I have no issue with the women who are making money from this. I just wish there was no money to make from it. You seem to be happy with a world full of the men who are paying ... ... except when you aren't on another topic? You don't get to pick and choose, if you want a world full of better men and by some miracle it happens, then there will be no walk on girls, and no OnlyFans, because no one will be reaching into their pockets whilst thinking with their dicks. It's really THAT simple.

And to say that the casual objectification of women (e.g. in this case, darts walk on girls) has "nothing to do with" the porn and prostitution industries, or to deny that those industries are rife with exploitation of (mostly) young (mostly) women? Come on. It's just objectively the reality of the situation.

While I'm not in favour of women being objectified, I wouldn't go so far as to agree with Quantum Boy who seems to have quite lost his mind over the issue, to the point of name-calling.

https://i2-prod.dailystar.co.uk/inco...dra-Palace.jpg
https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/...trip=all&w=709

The Jackpot only has eyes for his 'arras

what a pro

Most adults are exploited very day at work, some more than others....minimum wage ....poor working conditions, unhelpful management and on it goes

Do you have any issue with women who perform on stage in skimpy outfits and open their legs during dance routines for example Beyonce?

QB/TS, I don’t know what sort of company you keep, or what sports premises you hang around in to observe such behaviour but your description of men when attractive adult women appear is totally offensive to decent blokes everywhere.

slimey old geezers
smelly old gits
dirty old men
gross old pervs.
fat bastards drinking beer
sad gammons
gross, perving trogs.
hand in their pants
ogling sleazeballs.
letching nonces,

An adult man appreciating an adult woman’s attractiveness wherever they appear isn’t sleazy, it’s normal. It’s also normal to not sit there and fume about objectification, we just carry on with our day/evening, our lives. Nobody got hurt.
Sure, there are sleazeballs out there. Some. You either seem to know them all or your unhinged imagination is running away with you.