Feck Off USA

:joker:

disgraceful comments from obama

He has failed.

They're smart comments, why should the US have to babysit us if we do leave?

We're not magically going to be fine if we leave the EU, we'll be reliant on other countries to support us while we try to throw together trade deals with all the EU countries since we'd have shot ourselves in the foot by leaving a market we rely on.

That's not to mention that, without the EU in place, the Tories will be free to force all the cuts to ESA and benefits people depend on to live without fearing an EU inquiry. There are no pros to leaving the EU, only cons.

Excellent point.

That applies equally to any government that is in power. I'm very undecided now on which way i will vote. Without a "safeguard" perhaps voters will think longer on who they vote for. It is after all them that choose a government to lead the country, we shouldn't be relying on europe, and certainly not be dictated to by unelected beaurocrats or faceless corporations

See,I like that, to have some fair more neutral balance with guidelines that will possibly help not only curb Conservative govts more extreme actions in power but also any other party,Labour or otherwise or coalition govts in power too.
I don't mind that at all.

We do also send MEPs to the EU as well,perhaps if we set out more to create bigger turnouts in European elections we may then send better MEPs to fight our corner and win greater influence in the EU.

The BBC are doing an interesting series on the EU based on common items.

This one is on the sausage http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-35648212

Which interestingly, would be more expensive if we left the EU :fist:

why send huw Edwards to interview Obama, nice guy but totally toothless and of course failed to ask him about TTIP which is what this is really all about. oh but they talked about baby george again ffs patronising irrelevant small talk

It's funny really, people think we can just leave the EU without any big repercussions, if we leave we'd still be heavily dependent on the EU, except, we'd now be outsiders, making trade a lot more expensive. Also, it's pretty silly to think the EU wouldn't have any influence at all over us. Illegal immigration wouldn't just magically stop either, people would still sneak across the border, probably just as easily as they do now.

ahh the old straw man argument, youre arguing against opinions which don't exist

no one says there wull be no big repercussions, there will be, there will also be big rewards

the eu would have some influence but not as much, wed have british laws and wed abide by them, british tariffs, british benefits, british bills , british firms allowed to fight for better energy deals, form our own indepdent industrial laws and masterplan....in time we could afford to dig coal if needed or slate or make steel too. To form our own trade deals, to recruit whatever medical staff we like anywhere in the world...to tighten border controls.to form as many cross nation agreement as we like

the eu will be much much weaker without us and others will follow us and the swiss and Norwegians and many more

the EU will fail regardless.....if we leave down we will simply suffer less damage than other nations

cross eu agreements can always be made, we can all be friends

the eu was meant to remove stupid red tape to make trade easier...its done the opposite, deliberately....so as to make it a closed shop for massive corporations


it cannot be reformed from within, that's impossible its way too far gone wrong

it must start again

laws on climate change, pollution, certain human rights, civil rights, etc etc many will remain, the dozens of worldwide organizations we will still be part of, oecd, g8 , g20 , nato, climate change, etc etc and like Norway we will still trade as they do with European countries

money talks and bull**** walks....everyone will want to do business with us, probably moreso than ever

Exactly, the EU has Nations lining up to join it. The EU is going nowhere as to losing influence.
With other major Nations like Canada and the USA all wanting closer trading deals with it,its strength will only increase in trading terms.

No other Country has a deal with the EU that is good and full one where they can refuse to have the free movement of EU citizens to them too.

You are correct as to your illegal immigration point too.

Furthermore,it is said that it could take 2 years to fully sever our membership with the EU,well just imagine all the uncertainty and nervousness that would create as to business and investment in and to the UK.
To think that would not damage our economy over all that time is real pie in the sky stuff in my view.
Then it will depend just really what is actually in place for the UK and not what was hoped for or thought as possible but not certain, as to whether we make up the lost ground and even get to where we are today, let alone get any better.

Then that is before now very likely more constitutional issues, such as the SNP demanding a new independence referendum,if Scotland votes to stay in, which it will, and the UK votes overall to leave.
That will cause even more problems for our status and economy,all on top of our leaving the EU scenario.

For me, no way is such upheaval desirable or necessary, we helped form the EU as it is around 30 years ago, we are out of monetary union with the EU and we cannot sign any further treaties without a referendum for the consent of the UK voters.

We also are a success as a Nation and although big change is needed in the EU,just as we helped form the EU as it is now and signed up to all it has brought into play under both major parties in govt; then we need to be there helping bring about change too and not be outside with a trading deal where the EU can at its will change the conditions of same,with the UK unable to do a thing about it to keep any trade deal we may get with the EU.

Fantasy land. the EU is bankrupt lol Thank goodness we walked our own path and kept the pound and kept our own monetary policy. if Greece , Italy , Portugal, Iceland, spain and even france had kept the franc their economies wouldn't be going down the toilet....this entire project is insane, its anti economics. all nations will fail in the eu bar Germany who control the monetary policy.

2 years is nothing compared to eternity, what you don't seem to understand is 1) were doing the eu a favour...2) the eu will collapse anyway 3) were fighting to stop ttip , the us wants one gigantic takeover , they cant do that
to individual countries 4) The majority of eu either bankrupt or in a dreadful economic state 5) unemployment across the eu is at all time record highs because of the EU

pls point me to any success stories inside the EU bar Germany and their next door neighbours Austria

then compare to the endless independent countries who control their own monetary policies, who are way stronger outside it....Switzerland, Norway, japan, Australia, new Zealand, Canada , America , south Africa, etc etc and no these nations do NOT want to join the EU as fully paid up members, propping up bankrupt nations, wasteful corrupt politicians, giving up their own laws and sovereignty

Look, you and I are likely wasting our time this thread,I will never agree with you likely and you certainly are only able to rudely in my view get away with dismissing anything anyone who disagrees with you says.


For me with regret the fantasy land is the one that is 'out' because no one has single idea as to what will really happen.
Clearly you do not either.
You mention Norway and Switzerland, they both have to accept free movement of EU citizens.
By the way it is European Nations that can join the EU as full members, not Australia and New Zealand and the USA.
They are not in Europe.


You can dismiss 2 years as nothing but it is a long time for business and investment to see uncertainty on.
The one place there is no fantasy is in the EU, good or bad we know with greater certainty what we are likely to be doing in years to come and the past decades in the EU show we can be successful.

We are not fighting TTIP at all, TTIP may never even be agreed in this present form, it most certainly will have an almighty struggle to be ratified by the EU Nations that is for sure.
If we left the EU no way could we then even have a vote as to TTIP and the EU deal anyway.
So we are hardly fighting it.

There you are, more rubbish and nonsense for you to dismiss but as I have done it for you, there is really no need to respond with the fullest respect.
If you do, I will have to ignore you as you are just,sadly in my view,simply too rude to debate with anyway and rarely show any respect for others opposite positions and views on issues.

lol I find it hilarious how you claim falsely everyone is rude who disagrees with every word you say
I and many others have provided endless facts to prove you are wrong and to prove brexitors are right ...starting with 48% youth unemployment in Italy where the government was replaced by the eu in a totally undemocratic takeover....unemployment in Greece is 24% ....its even doubled in france. france? the original eu big shots...The list of nations destroyed by the euro and eu is very long and 100s of millions of lives have been seriously damaged , yet you bury your head in the sand and ignore all of this
you ignore the fact we lost billions every year, you ignore the fact many of the people at the eu are unelected, they are nominated....you ignore the fact there are more jihadis free to roam Europe than every, you ignore the fact more terrorists murders have occurred around europe in the last year than any other year in history..you ignore the fact the debts per eu nation are higher than ever
you ignore the fact clearly the eu will want to build an army. this will of course undermine nato
ttip is going to happen if we stay in the eu...the usa has been working on ttip for 4 years....they know if we leave it weakens the eu and means the eu will unravel to democratic sovereign democracies again...the usa are scared of that.....there is no limit to their lust and greed. they simply want to eradicate our laws and rules to suit their own corrupt corporations. ttip is why Obama came to Europe, that is why he is in Europe today
they want to take over Europe , it really is that simple

Wrong again,I do not, to you actually I do really say that to,because it is true,there are very few indeed on here are as rude as you are to myself and maybe even others with opposing views to yours.
I try to counter a view with my view as politely as I can and should,
How you get away with your rudeness, not just to me, is mystifying to me.

Really best leave it there, and now for me sorry and very regrettably, you are really someone now who only deserves my silence.
That is how it will be from now on,even when I do agree with anything you say too.

yet again youre ignoring all the facts of the suffering of 100s of millions of Europeans under this crazy unaccountable EU dictatorship. italys government was replaced by the eu without any elections, you call that democracy? that's the future, oh and ttip ensuring all governments can be sued by corporations, marvellous. that's the future you are supporting

I will try once more, I am strongly for in but I accept there is a lot wrong with the EU.
There are good things as to it too.

You are strongly for out,I respect that and actually I think 'out' will win the day come the referendum now.

I don't ignore facts because from 'out' and 'in' what are called facts are often anything but.
We haven't true democracy in the UK any more anyway,with an electoral system that allows under 4 in every 10 voters to elect the govt now.

I do not like the sound of TTIP, you are preaching to the converted already as to that,however I do not believe it will be accepted in its present form and I also do not think all EU Nations will allow it to be ratified anyway.

from your perspective,you believe that the UK can have a good future out of the EU,you may well be right and I could be way wrong avidly supporting the EU.
I know where I am with the EU however so will be sticking with it,I could however consider voting out if I could see a plan with other Nations for the UKs future out and not just words.

I am shocked that "Remain" is winning. Why, on earth, do you want to be bossed around by people in Brussels? When someone offers you a get out of jail free card, take advantage of it.

I know its incredible. the eu is bankrupt.

I am against big corporations ruling over us, so I vote out.

yeah me too

[UK Better Off Outside EU, Economists Say
A group of experts says the
economy would be stronger
after a Brexit and dismiss
Treasury warnings as "totally misleading".]

http://news.sky.com/story/1686730/uk...economists-say