Wombai your looking toolish.
If immigrants come to a country they'll live in the poorest communities which have higher crime rates. Can you see how crime has a link to lower socio-economic areas and therefore if that area has high proportion of asians etc then the asian crime stats will be high. ARe there other factors?... sure there are, access to education, feeling disenganged politically, rasist fear mongering, lack of cultual integration and repect etc... that's an endless list. YOU choose to link crime with their race/religion and ignore all else. You blindly quote the facts that you like and willfully ignore all else as you try to reduce complex problems to things that don't hurt your brainz.
The telegraph link as a fact to back up you hate was hilarious and sad at the same time Well done.
ps mate I doubt Netto gives two *****s what your "sick of". What a noob way to start a post but don't despair... ARISTA is on your side ( kiss of death lol)

Of course there is a link with lower socio-economic conditions/areas - but equally there are many other cultures living in the same conditions. But despite being in the minority certain groups are commiting the highest percentage of crime. Figures speak for themselves. I don't deny other contributing factors - but they do not excuse these groups of people from behaving the way they do. Sticks and stones mate. Calling people 'sick' for highlighting certain issues - is just a pathetic attempt at intimidating people from doing so. Couldn't give a ***** what you or netto think! :joker:

"Conclusion—the nature and extent of overrepresentation

92. We can say with greater certainty that the patterns of offending vary between different ethnic groups than that the level of offending varies significantly. While it is unclear whether young black people commit more crime of all types than young people as a whole, it does appear that they are more likely overall to be involved in certain types of serious and violent crime, including gun crime.

93. The level of young black people's involvement in these crimes, and the overrepresentation of young black people in the system overall—which may reflect other factors also—represents a serious crisis for sections of black communities and for some young people of a mixed ethnic background. Nowhere was this more strongly pointed out to us than by those working with and representing those communities themselves. Lee Jasper, Director of Equalities and Policing at the Greater London Authority, told us "we have, quite literally, a crisis in the black community among our young, black people."[131]

94. The variations between the nature and extent of young black people's involvement in the criminal justice system compared to that of other young people suggest that there are likely to be some specific factors in young black people's experience that need to be tackled—and that policies which do not take into account these differences are likely to be ineffective."


http://www.parliament.the-stationery.../181/18105.htm

?? zzzz read my post and save the rant... where did I call you sick? Where did Netto call you sick? The "pathetic attempt at intimidating" is actually you misreading and then working it into your victim fantasy.
The "sick of" quote came from what YOU champ.

your links
"it does appear that they are more likely overall to be involved in certain types of serious and violent crime, including gun crime. "

No one argued against this... question is why. Your repeating of the "facts" that none dispute doesn't move the debate anywhere. Why are crime rates amoung young disaffected black or asian youth disproportionally higher? Your post points to cultural, race and religion..." the facts don't lie" you said. Mate surely you get there are way more factors at work here and writing off a whole group of people based on something as simple as that smacks of racism. Attempts made at looking into the bigger picture you write off as an example of me making excuses for why crime by blacks is ok. I want to understand it like you do but unlike you I don't jump at simple answers served to me by the daily mail and the telegraph.
ps the laughing clown emoticon seems desperate when you try to convince us the you "don't give a *****"....especially in light of the fact that you sooo don't give a ***** that you wrote me an essay complete with a bibliography :P.

Yes, I misread the sick bit, although never accused netto of saying that, was just referring to the previous post. I consider my wrist slapped for that.

As for the rest - I just highlighted the fact that certain minority groups appeared more involved in certain crimes than others. For that I got called racist. That is what I rightly object to. I was right in that - so to call me racist for stating facts is incorrect - and is just certain people using emotive language to deter people from stating such facts. Netto is always accusing people of being racist - she has her own agenda for that!

I don't profess to know all the reasons behind why certain groups are commiting a greater proportion of certain crimes - that area is a minefield and needs further investigation by the right people - fact is just they are! Are people not allowed to state such facts because they don't sit well with some people on here!

The fact that other groups who have the same socio-economic disadvantages are not behaving in the same way suggests to me and many others that there is a cultural aspect involved. This needs to be addressed, not ignored.

You choose to look at one particular area of crime , the one that appears to have a hign proportion of black people...hmm ok. Well also if you look furthur into the actual statistics you'd see that black males are 8 times more likely to be stopped and searched by police than white males and more likely to be convicted compared to like for like crimes committed by white males and with fewer previous convictions....not to mention the prevalence of black people in poor deprived areas and the associated problems, drugs, lack of education and so on as mentioned by Ange

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...licing-prisons

http://www.smartjustice.org/yprace.html

"ARISTA is on your side"


Ange do not put me in that bag,
I stand Alone
it may be how you suffer your life
in that Down Under nation.
Not me.

Because that particular area of crime is one of the worst kinds - where people get killed! And I did read the statistics you mention, doesn't change the fact that certain minority groups are more responsible for violent crime including gun crime. If they are a minority group - how come they are most responsible for that type of crime? They are not the only group living in those conditions - so as far as I can see, that does not excuse it!

lol wha?
back in your box loopy McLoopLoop.
ps
"bang on right" means you agree with someone right?

gawd. you talking round and round, repeating yourself.zzzz For the 3rd time none disagree that crime among disadvantaged minorities is higher than the average. This isn't news to anyone so slamming that on the table with the phrase "here are da facts" isn't getting you the win. It's like your arguing with yourself and then patting yourself on the back. Here's the point.... your using THAT fact to back up your point. My question is what is your point? Have the ballz to say it. Are you saying that Asians or Muslims are naturally "bad" or do you agree with us that there are MANY factors on both sides that have led to the situation being what it is. Your point about "other" disadvantages minorities not being involved in crime is a massive fail. It suggests that it must be something specifically about asian or muslim culture or religion. That's why you come across as racist. Follow through with your argument because stating the obvious is a waste. Other minorities have been in the UK longer and have settled and don't have the stigma of "muslim" attached to them. It's an unfair and stupid comparison. Here in Australia in the 60's Greeks and Italians were the target of racism, accused of and had higher crime rates and were ghettoised. 15 years later they were accepted, moved out of the few suburbs they lived in and spread out through the city as they became more affluent... crime rates for Greeks and Italian went way down to the nation average. In the 70's the same thing happened with Vietnamese arrivals , and again in the 80's with the Lebanese, 90's South Americans, 00's Somalis, Sri Lankans and Afghans. Your comparison doesn't take into account that over time a society will at first "tolerate" and the respect and love new cultures. Comparing minorites totally ignores that point. What matters...is the general society welcoming or is it filled with retarded racist co*kwits that have loser lives and need to blame their failures on someone else.
Ps You keep saying that anyone with a view other than yours must be trying to "excuse" crime. This is a cheap and nasty shot and makes you look desperate for a "win". Just think it through.... isn't a topic as huge as this worth a little more thought or do think it just has a simple answer?

I have already said in one post that I do believe there is a cultural aspect to it. I am not saying that any group is naturally 'bad' - more use of emotive language to inflame the debate and attempt to justify your views - but it does have more to do with environment and what people become used to - evidence does suggest that, for instance, certain groups ie Jamaicans - who come from countries with violent cultures, with lots of gangs, and less law and order, bring that way of life to our streets. And something does need to be done about it - we don't want more violence, we have enough of it already.

How does my point that other disadvantaged groups, including poor, uneducated whites, not acting in the same way - equal a fail in your book. You explain that - just stating fail in itself is pointelss, useless and proves nothing. And how does saying that culture can affect behaviour make someone racist? Surely that is a fact! Seems to me you live more in an idealistic world than a realistic one. Different cultures have different ways of doing things, different ways of thinking about things and can be used to a completely different way of life to us. I strongly believe that if people live in another country, whether by choice or circumstance, they should respect that country's way of life and abide by their rules and regulations - it is not a god-given right to be there.

And you can take your patronizing, know-it-all attitude and stick it where it hurts! I guess I better prepare myself for a barrage of racist allegations then!

"take your patronizing, know-it-all attitude and stick it"


Yes Down Under Ange7
take that.

They are not neccasarily more responsible either, more likely to be arrested and convicted yes and more likely to live in poverty and deprivation, the same kinds of things happen in all poor deprived areas, white aswell...The only agenda I have is to balance out yours

"I have already said in one post that I do believe there is a cultural aspect to it" yes you did... but I didn't. Your not getting that the example I used re Australia's migrant intake. People from all of these cultures at one time or another had higher than average crime rates during the initial intake which tailored off after a decade or so as they were accepted. That each of these diverse cultures initially had THE SAME problems points to a other factors of acceptance and tolerance from the society as a whole rather than them coming from "countries with violent cultures". This example answered you point about other disadvantaged groups but you missed it. It's not uselful to compare one group that has been in society for 50 years to a group of migrants from another country that has come more recently? Then you added the example of "uneducated whites" ( jeez are like 60 years old... that's cold) ... here your not comparing like with like given that anglo/celtic working class are NOT routinely discriminated against etc. Their experiences of what it means to be British and in the UK is way too different to be able to make any usable argument.

"And how does saying that culture can affect behaviour make someone racist"
dude that's you arguing with YOU again. When did I say culture CAN"T influence behaviour? WHen did I say you were racist... dude are you reading my post or just projecting some other argument where you got labelled a racist onto me? While I'm at it don't act like I'm patronising you just because I disagree with you. This persecution complex of yours where your the victim and I'm the evil guy inflicting a "barrage" sounds like that sad act lady sov "don't patronise me!!". Just argue your point mate " there's a good boy" :P.

"Different cultures have different ways of doing things, different ways of thinking about things...etc"
Not so different... we're all humans and if it's a hard ask to respect other cultures then buddy that boat as long since sailed. ( I am convinced your 60 years old). Multicultualism works but it takes an effort to learn and be curisous about other cultures. It's a two way street and yeah some immagrants feel left out, they get rubbished and mocked and naturally feel more of a connection to their homeland and resentful of the UK. That's not a failing on their part but a failing on UK society. eg If some extremist Imams can fool a group of brumy ( spelling?) asian boys who had never even seen a quran in their lives to blow up innocent people in buses and trains then what does that say about UK society? No I'm not condoning 7/7 you noob, I'm saying what else can UK society learn from it? Why was it so easy for these imams to turn them? Why did these kids feel like there was no place for them in today's UK?. Clearly they were meatheads and easily fooled but why were they so up for it? It was becasue they were on the outer from day one and they knew it and felt it. In a shop, on the street, on tibb... they'd feel it and know it.... daily. If you guys want multiculturalism to work ( and you have ZERO choice in that) then make an effort instead of writing off whole cultural segments of your population with Arista's daily mail logic. That sh*t is good for selling papers but not for much else.

aww the jolly green troll furthering the debate as usual.
You still angry because I called you Loopy McLoopLoops. Don't read too much into that :P

No that Means Nothing as a Term
Not a Problem

Down Under Ange7

"It suggests that it must be something specifically about asian or muslim culture or religion. That's why you come across as racist."

You did state that saying that culture can affect behaviour sounds racist as the above quotation shows!

I am getting it, as you put it - the Australian migrant point - but the gun crime is too crucial to wait for years to resolve. A lot of people can die in ten years. You seem to blame eveything on government and government policies - but people do have individual responsibilty for their actions - you can't always pass the buck!

Why is it also in your view the responsibility of the host population to accept those coming into the country as opposed to those coming in making more of an effort to adapt to their host country and assimilating into that country's way of life. You seem too biased the other way to me!

Can you be a bit more succinct in your replies - haven't got the energy to read your novels today, you noob!

"It suggests that it must be something specifically about asian or muslim culture or religion". jesus mate lol? what's up with you? again you said that... but I didn't. It's my summary of YOUR view not mine. Read the post ffs.
"You seem to blame eveything on government and government policies" oh really.
"Why is it also in your view the responsibility of the host population to accept those coming into the country" ... you invited them. When you did you didn't add pre-conditions .... you didn't need to since 99% of immigrants are law abiding and DON"T come from cultures that see British standards as foreign. That's just you and the daily mail.
"but people do have individual responsibilty for their actions" Obviously... again you seem to want to present my argument as a defense of criminals. Nah I defending the majority of immigrants who you love to lump together because it makes hard topics much much silmpler for you to work through.
"Can you be a bit more succinct in your replies - haven't got the energy to read your novels today, you noob! "
mahahaha 3 paragraphs has tired you out .... awwww you poor lil'victim you. hehe Struggle on champ.

It sounds an awful lot like you are blaming the crimes on racism in the first place? You assume far too much if this is what you were trying to say.

If not, I apologise.

In part institutional racism is a part of it, black males are more likely to be stopped, white males are more likely to be cautioned than black men (for the same offences). Black men are more likely to be convicted and given harsher sentences for the same offences, even when they have fewer previous convictions then their white counterparts...aswell as being marginalised in society. Its not blaming the crimes on that, its just facts that make up why black men are over represented in the justice system. Theres another study which I cant find that suggests the level of crime is more even accross cultures according to offenders self reports.

"If some extremist Imams can fool a group of brumy ( spelling?) asian boys who had never even seen a quran in their lives to blow up innocent people in buses and trains then what does that say about UK society?"

Just maybe that says more about the boys and their home and cultural influences than it does about UK society!

Seems you blame everyone - but the individuals that actually commit the crimes. You blame government, government policies, residents of the UK, UK culture - everybody barr those that commit the actual crimes! I hold people personally accountable for their actions and don't believe in passing the buck. Whatever external influences come into play - ultimately the individual is responsible for their own actions. Unless they lack mental capacity - they know right from wrong!

Sorry - but I don't buy into your minority group criminals are innocent victims theories - maybe I am just not the bleeding-heart type!

That I can understand. I would imagine black males are more likely to be stopped, purely because of the stigma surrounding it all...and people believeing they commit more serious crimes...because of statistics...because of the reason for the higher statistics...its a vicious circle.
And quite unfair tbh.

That wasnt my point though, seemed ange was trying to blame the actual CRIMES on racism. Not on the individual who committed them. Thats what i meant.

You have to love the UK government and its policy of bringin in new laws simply to be seen to be doing something and yet most of them are simply rehashes of existing legislation, particularly on racism and terrorism.

And the best thing is the Great British Public buy into it.

Its trying to get us all to buy into the multicultural Britain they would so dearly love us to believe exists.

Nazir Ali should be hung..

I said it was one of many contributing factors that lead to higher than average crime rates among young black or asian youth. Nowhere did I say that those crime rates among this group was solely due to racism. Do you agree with the Wom that years of entrenched racism has nothing to do with it?

Wom: "for instance, certain groups ie Jamaicans - who come from countries with violent cultures, with lots of gangs, and less law and order, bring that way of life to our streets."

These kids are mostly 2nd and sometimes 4th generation brits... ie born in uk. What gangs from Jamaica are you rambling on about you douche?... the worst that can happen to you if you find you self in Kingston is you get roped into a cricket game with a 3 inch spliff out of the side of your gob. Lol of all the violent countries that immigrants are coming from YOU pick Jamaica ...lolz. Kids in the UK involved in pushing up crime rates were mostly born in the UK and their parents were born their too. Something happens to a SMALL NUMBER of them WHILE in the UK.