The pulling down the pants thing might have been a joke in Denise's eyes but the twin clearly never took it that way nor did the BB producers who told her in the diary room they deemed it as unacceptable behaviour and I can honestly say right now whether Denise and her friends do that kind of thing regularly or not, if I was at a party and another woman done that to me I would not see the funny side either.

Saying Americans have zero sense of humour is just ridiculous that's all I have to say about that.

I do agree though that it was all blown out of proportion and I think if Frankie hadn't stepped in at the point he did and they had allowed Nicola to take the other twin outside then it would have calmed down a lot sooner and the Nicola/Denise argument wouldn't have happened.

I still stand by my opinion that if Denise was truly sorry and understood she was in the wrong she would have apologised to the twins the following day, she apologised to Nicola and told her she was going to say sorry to the twins but never done it.

Nope, I know 14 year olds probably do it at school, but everyone I know grew up! But I've never seen women or girls pulls eachothers pants down on any occasion. Maybe I'm going to the wrong clubs :conf: lol

No I have never seen adults acting like that, all of the people I keep company with have respect for each other.

Yeah I wonder what these parties of Denise's are like where it's the norm for women in their 50's to go around pulling each others trousers down :conf2:

My problem with the twins is that they act so high and mighty when they're really not. Yes I understand that just because you pose for playboy or page three doesn't mean you'll sleep with ever guy in town BUT I find it very hypocritical the way they spin instances around to suit their needs.

Denise said last night, your sister makes a living taking her clothes off for playboy/magazines and Kristina completely blew up at her and said that's a lie. But it's not really is it. I guarantee you the majority of their fortune came from living at the mansion and being Heff's girlfriends and appearing more than one tv show because of that.

I rate them for their business smarts. They are incredibly focused on the prize at hand and are very versed in the politics of entertainment BUT they cannot dispute that the majority of their fortune has come from them sexually exploiting themselves.

Honestly, I see Denise's point. Being a young adult female I've done that to my friends as they have to me. Was it acceptable for the cbb house which is broadcasted on tv? Maybe not but Denise clearly felt comfortable enough for her to let her guard down like that.

And to Josy, it's not about respect. Some people are more comfortable with others and some have different humor than others. There's nothing wrong with getting a little raunchy with your girlfriends in the privacy of your own quarters. The problem here was, they were on tv because I guarantee you, the twins have done a lot worse with their girlfriends when the cameras aren't around.

Denise still has a lot of emotional issues though and I really hope this experience helps her grow.

Exactly. I don't know what she gets up to with her friends but I'd slap her if she did that to me, especially on national TV

Actually it is about respect, randomly pulling a womens trousers down while she is dancing is completely disrespectful imo.

This.

x 2

Taken out of the wrong context. I wasn't referring to the incident I was referring to you saying the company you keep have more respect for each other than that.

In response to that I'm saying it's not necessarily about respect because believe it or not, there are some women out there who don't mind. If you don't mind having your trousers pulled down then respect isn't a factor.

True, but, imo, you would have to know a person pretty well to know that they wouldn't mind having their pants pulled down. Denise barely knows the Twins.

No apology but to be honest, I don't want to see one, it would just be half-assed like the one that Nicola got from Denise.

The twins are hypercritical. They HAVE made a fortune taking their clothes off and like someone else has said, it's ok when it suits them.

It's not a case of people doing it together. It's friends, when you're having a drunken mess about with your mates you do all kinds. And that was Denise's error, having a drunken mess about and felt like she was partying with her mates.

I wasnt referring to that incident either, if there are woman out there who dont mind having there trousers pulled down like that or find it funny then fair play to them, but I find it disrespectful.

Well, that's obviously one of Denise's many issues but also shows she didn't mean any malice behind it.

But, I have a very hard time believing Karissa is as offended as she's making out. That's probably the reason I have the opinion I do because the way she acted in the diary room and in tonight's highlights.

No ****. It's not okay when a 50 something women they barely know tries to do the undressing for them.

This too is true and I think this incident says a lot about Denise's emotional state. She clearly felt comfortable enough with the twins and I believe this she's clearly insecure about her age and wanted to 'fit in' with the 'cool kids', among other things.

Honestly, I wouldn't have pulled their pants down, at least not on telly. I don't think they mind normally when they're in their naturally setting but the fact that it was being broadcasted and they didn't necessarily sign up to show off their body, ie. they weren't making no money from it, really set them off.

Of course it's ok when it suits them :conf: It's their bodies. I can't see how you think just because they've done glamour modelling that it gives people the right to take off their clothes without their consent

Thanks for your welcome Wong and Inone. These forums are usually a bit pointless as I think most people won't really change their mind. But it's always nice to see that there are some others that see the world as you do.

What I slightly cringe at, is the idea that the twins will be ejected to a howling mob, and subjected to questioning along the lines of 'Why did you over-react?' I mean their bound to go home thinking that Britain (and by extension us Irish that watch) has a very strange value system.

I've had the good fortune to travel all over America. And I hate teh Anti-yank crap that's so prevalent all over Europe. By and large, Americans would put all of us to shame with their manners. I was at a baseball game in Chicago a few years ago. When the opposition stepped on the mound I was fascinated not to hear evn one single word of abuse. For the whole of the game I never heard the F word (and was very careful not to use it myself). It was a complete family day out. Parents and kids all over the gaff. Beer sold at the stadium, yet I didn't see anybody drunk. When would you see that on the British Isles?

Say what you like about the yanks - they know how to behave themselves. We've all lost the plot. And when people try to defend loutish behaviour as a joke, it makes me despair all the more.

How can you say Denise gave her a half-assed apology? Denise and Nicola had a few convos about it throughout the highlights show where she explained herself and apologised, as did Nicola and then they hugged it out.

She was obviously in total shock on the night and it was most likely an instant buzzkill for her. All dancing away and Denise sits behind her and does that, and as soon as she gets up she pretends she's going to do it again. I think she was highly annoyed and thinking what brings a person to do that. They were rightly still annoyed in the morning and she deserved an apology or explanation from Denise. To act as if nothing has happened is like a slap in the face.

That's why i said 'in any situation'

Of course people aren't going to change their minds, they're entitled to their own opinions. That's what makes forums like this relevant, it gives people a chance to discuss their differing views. Trust me, if we all saw the world in the same light we'd soon run out of things to talk about.

As for them thinking Britain has a strange value system, well I don't really care because I have my opinions about the value system of women who sexually exploit themselves for fame and fortune. But to each their own anyway.

Yes, but there are groups of friends who would find what Denise did disrespectful (as would anyone) BUT everyone has different boundaries of things when you're having a laugh with close friends and getting drunk.

That was Denise's error, that she wasn't in her friend's living room but on national TV.