so surviving violence makes it okay? i'm not following your logic.

I'm saying they didn't all turn out to be violent people like you claimed.

If you call getting a slap on the hand as a child for bad behaviour and growing up perfectly normal "surviving". It's not life or death.

As long as it's not actual beatings and not a regular thing, getting smacked for every this, that and whatever then it's acceptable.

Think I would prefer to take the ''take away their favourite things until they start to behave'' approach

That is some supposition. We all have our own terms of what we consider things to be. I was asking you what you considered violence to be.

Acting out physically against another human being is violence. People who use force instead of words, that is violence.

Ok, so you consider a tap on the hand to be violence. Think we will have to disagree on that one.

intimidation is violence. intentionally causing another person to be fearful or afraid.

striking fear into someone's heart.

All you seem to be doing is using these extreme buzz words and not actually coming to any sort of point.

You can cause intimidation with words...

i made my point in my first post.

violence against children is wrong.

This. You're contradicting yourself lostalex.

and that is wrong too.

You can do that with words...Is shouting out as well then?...Oh I'm fecked then better phone childline myself!

That is not violence. What we are talking about is low physical aggression.

if it was just "low" and "harmless" then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

when did i ever discount the trauma of emotional and verbal abuse? i never did. So i don't understand all the people saying "words can be violent too" i totally agree that they can!

But you say "People who use force instead of words, that is violence." And then "intimidation is violence", which can come from words. But then you say that is wrong too. :conf:

Low and harmless is the topic of the discussion.

If you're talking about battering your child then I refer you to the thread about the Chinese woman.

Its harmless if you use it appropriately as a last resort.

That's the whole point, most of the time it is. Not every parent who give their kid a tap every now and again for being out of line are child abusers. It's just a method some parents use and as long as it doesn't get nasty then there's nothing wrong with it.

there are violent words just as there are violent actions. and there are kind words, aswell as kind actions. I don't understand this paradigm you've created that says you have to use violence in any way. Why is any violence ever acceptable????

It's not imo. words or acts it's never acceptable.

That's where wires are crossing.

A slap on the hand is not "violent" IMO.

slaping a child's hand away from an open fire, i agree is not violent. but i don't think that's what we are talking about.

Like i sad before, violence is intimidation.

Let me rephrase. You stated "People who use force instead of words, that is violence.", but by your own definition, words can be deemed as violence. Just struck me as a contradiction in terms.

Where did I say you have to use violence? I think we have different terms of the meaning anyhow.

tbh as a kid when my mum told me she was disappointed and that she didnt want to talk to me it hurt a lot more than a quick smack across the arse but you have to change methods so they dont lose effect. A smack has quick impact but several warnings and meanings of punishment (removing toys, silence) should be used first because discipline is all to do with teaching and learning morals and putting yourself in other's shoes etc. etc. and making you a decent human being in adult life.

It kind of goes like this alex, recontruction of a recalled conversation.
Please dont do that (explanation)
mum said dont...
come on now, stop that please
(attempt distraction...fails)
away now please
away
now
right im getting cross
do as you are told please
right I'm going to count...
1
2
3
TAP!
If that seems extreme to you fine.