Ditto with 'right wing loonies, your experiences are unfortunate but it comes from,and this is harsh but your own desire to exploit from what I can see.
Employing low paid workers using a recruitment firm with no way of exploring quals and references adequately when in the north tradesmen and ex miners are crying out for jobs.
Renting your properties to similar low paid workers and then blackening the whole of eastern Europe when said handful are found to be unsuitable.
Cutting corners, paying dodgy firms set up for profit are a recipe for disaster and you were stung, it's a life lesson perhaps that the toryboy life comes with it's own pitfalls?

Quote: ArchAngel;7436025]"Ditto with 'right wing loonies, your experiences are unfortunate but it comes from,and this is harsh but your own desire to exploit from what I can see."


What? :shrug:

Is it some type of sickness with you lefties? How do you conclude what you have written from what I actually posted?

How do you justify that it was my "own desire to exploit from what I can see." from what I wrote?

I had no desire to "exploit" anyone and never intimated as much nor stated as much and it is either dishonesty or arrogance to presume otherwise. The fact is that I paid all the Polish workers the same rate as my English ones - above industry pay rates.

"Employing low paid workers using a recruitment firm with no way of exploring quals and references adequately when in the north tradesmen and ex miners are crying out for jobs."


"Employing low paid workers" is yet more pure blinkered left wing political arrogance and unjustified assumption and I have dealt with this above.

I used a recruitment firm because at the time I am referring to there was an economic boom and the property market had soared to record levels, which meant that new building and construction was also at record breaking levels, which meant that there was a dearth of qualified and skilled English construction and building workers. As my business was also booming, and in accordance with other companies, I had no real choice but to use 'foreign' construction tradesmen. Ex miner's hardly fitted the bill. Would you have been happy to pay me if I had used ex miners to refurbish your house and the standard of workmanship was botched because they weren't tradesmen?

Maybe you would have stayed true to your 'lefty at all costs mentality' and thought; "Oh well, it's OK because they're ex-miners", but somehow, I think not. .

As for "using a recruitment firm with no way of exploring quals and references" how do you know any of the facts to be able to state this?

You don't. But then, when do left wing extremists ever let the truth and facts get in the way of their ideology?

The facts are that it was a British company, was British based, and had great reviews from other builders who had used it. Nowhere in my post do I attribute any blame to this company - only to the Poles who furnished the fake but expertly faked - CV documents, references and qualifications, which I did check and which the recruitment agency checked. .

It transpired that a company in Poland was creating just such documents for Poles to help them land jobs here and the same company had operatives answering mail, e mail and telephone enquiries from British employers carrying out 'Due Diligence' and following up references.

"Renting your properties to similar low paid workers and then blackening the whole of eastern Europe when said handful are found to be unsuitable.
Cutting corners, paying dodgy firms set up for profit are a recipe for disaster and you were stung, it's a life lesson perhaps that the toryboy life comes with it's own pitfalls?"

LMAO :joker: -- If your posts are typical of Labour supporters now, then there's no wonder that no one in this country takes Labour seriously anymore, and no wonder that the 'Left' are disproportionately worried by UKIP and the fact that the majority of the 'Great British Public' now identify more with some of its policies than those of Labour or the Tories, because you continue to misread what is written, rewrite what you misread, and jump to conclusions about an article - the analysis of which, clearly shows no justification for such conclusions. :shrug:

I wrote of one example where I rented one property to one low-paid worker, and I lowered the rent considerably from the going Market Rent, because he was low-paid. But typically for a blinkered lefty who cares nothing for the truth, instead of applauding me for an act which should be close to your socialist heart, you choose to try to cynically distort the truth of what I wrote, to make it appear that I am actually exploiting the low paid in order to make it fit your anti-capitalist dogmatic viewpoint.

Shame on you. :nono:

As for: "blackening the whole of eastern Europe when said handful are found to be unsuitable."

Firstly; I have never referred to 'just a handful' anywhere in my post. I made it perfectly clear that I was not even listing the full extent of my repeated experiences with immigrant tenants by my use of the question; "Need I list more". In addition, I repeatedly stated that the problems which I encountered were not exclusive to me, but were "Nationwide" and that; "Many other landlords have suffered the same experiences - they are very, very common."

Where does this suggest "a handful"? - which even to a left winger must mean the number 5 (5 digits?).

Secondly; I never referred to "the whole of Eastern Europe" - you 'lefties' really must stop cynically misconstruing facts to suit your agenda - I was referring specifically to 'immigrant Eastern Europeans'.

Immigrants.

You know - those fit, strong, healthy, and able, 18 to 30 something males which first 'fled' to this country in their tens of thousands as 'asylum seekers', having passed several other 'safe' haven countries to do so, and having left women and children behind and at the mercy of those 'persecuting' them back in their own countries. Or not.

Immigrants.
You know. The opportunists who have flocked here in their millions - as opposed to those other less mercenary, less opportunist Eastern Europeans who have remained in their own countries, whom I am not referring to and haven't.

As for: "Cutting corners, paying dodgy firms set up for profit are a recipe for disaster and you were stung, it's a life lesson perhaps that the toryboy life comes with it's own pitfalls?"

I have never "cut corners" on anything which I do - the length and comprehensiveness of my posts are an indication of that - and I pride myself on my very hard work initiative (I regularly worked up to 16 hours per day and still do) and the fact that I am meticulous in everything which I do.

Nor did I "pay dodgy firms" - I paid the going fees for a service to a reputable firm which did nothing wrong but were misled by organised foreign fraudsters - as are all British Banks - but that's another post.

As for; "and you were stung, it's a life lesson perhaps that the toryboy life comes with it's own pitfalls?" Oh boy - a lot of you 'Lefties' cannot conceal your bitterness - it permeates everything which you spout and do. (I mean 'lefties by the way and not all 'Labour' supporters because there is a difference).

I am not, and have never been a 'Toryboy'. Yes - I have voted Tory, as I have voted 'Green' and as I have mostly voted Labour, because, as I have stressed, I am not some rigid extremist who slavishly - and irrationally - follows any party blindly just because that is what I have always done.

I have very little regard for any politician, and never have had - apart from Enoch Powell and Tony Benn, whose integrity and sincerity was beyond question, and who both talked a lot of sense but who were pilloried and ostracised and marginalised by less sincere and lesser politicians for their 'lack of moderation'.

Anyway; before I leave you to carry on looking at life's reality with your vision severely restricted by your 'blinkers' , and your ability to actually read posts, then recognise what is actually being stated before misconstruing, misquoting and mis-presuming, in serious question, I will point out to you; that you are so blinded by your own skewed dogma, that you actually miss the point of what I, LeatherTrumpet, The Truth , and others are saying - that we are not advocating a total ban on all immigration, just tighter controls in order to halt the flood.

We are not blaming all the problems which beset this country on immigrants - we are saying that unfettered immigration adds to those problems.

We cannot afford unfettered immigration.

Our services are underfunded now and at breaking point.

We are a comparatively tiny island and have not the space which unfettered immigration dictates. We have only the land we have - they are not making anymore.

Now I have work to do. Bye. :wavey:

I'm sorry it just seems so contradictory to suggest in one breath that you sought out men to work and live in the UK, and in the next breath be moaning that Mr Foreigner is taking all the work and space... :conf:

reverse racism is a massive problem in the uk and does as much damage as racism itself...most of the this reverese racism just like reverse sexism comes from the labour party

its hilarious how the far left lunatics running this assylum preach about business and raising wages and their exaggerations about employing illegal immigrants cheap, theyve never run businesses never had the balls to employ people which is why they know absolutely nothing about business...they exist in the fantasy world of the public secotr where the figures never add up, the accounts are always late, the debts are always bigger and never paid off....and of course they all close at 4.30pm and get drunk for a fortnight every Christmas..........if the whole country was run like local government wed all be 6 foot under. thank God for the free market

I though we were discussing the reverse tolerance of UKIP?

reverse constipation is good, you should try it

It's bad enough listening to it on here :laugh:

Hi Kirklancaster, I just want to say although I don't always agree with you I did really enjoy your post,a lot of info there and I was pleased to hear of your role during the Miners strike times too.

I think to be fair on a couple of things.
Labour will find it hard to win over great numbers after the problems at the end of the last Labour govt.
In fact it is hard for any party after going out of office to be voted back after only one term in opposition because that trust again is withheld,even though the mood has softened.
I too would have had no time for Tony Blair,which is why I am pleased with the direction Ed Miliband is taking labour now overall, not totally.

However, I do not think it is only the left who push forward their agenda as to the EU and immigration, I think in fact, the right, from this govt. those with power and influence and then the media particularly give a totally distorted presentation of the EU and immigration with their prejudiced agenda.
So much so,that I believe for the ordinary voter, there will be no chance at all of a straightforward informative and fair debate possible as to the EU and immigration.

I also think this present disaster of a PM with his procrastination as to the EU and immigration and indeed failure as to all his targets for immigration are dangerous for the UK.
This man has talked for the last 2+ years as to the EU and settling the issue.
He has let it ride for that time and then would take a further 2+ years to do some re-negotiations,(if we ever hear what they are),or even if he himself even knows what he will re-negotiate anyway.
Then he talks of a referendum sometime by the end of his next 3rd year of govt.

He talks a lot but does nothing in the main and the uncertainty of all that time as to our future in the EU and as to immigration,all that probably brings to the UK is really big confusion and instability in my view.

I am not a leftie by the way,I hate the term.
I was a strong Conservative from a Conservative voting background but whereas you turned to the Conservatives from your experiences of the past.
I have from all I have seen over these last few years,as to the persecution and heartlessness showed to the weakest,poorest and most vulnerable in the UK by this govt;I have turned,heavily too,from the Conservatives.

I do not think anyone vulnerable in the 21st century in a so called decent society should be brought down the way this govt. has done so as to them over the last near 5 years now.
There is nothing at all for those who are vulnerable in the present Conservative party led by David Cameron,a man who is now obsessed almost in following the agenda laid out by UKIP to win votes.

Since this thread is about UKIP really,therein lies another question and answer for me.
Those most vulnerable in the UK have no hope of anything better, or indeed anything at all from UKIP, so despite the smiles and joviality from Nigel Farage,he is someone I would likely trust less than David Cameron and that really isn't saying anything from me as to either of them.

I do love your posts however and respect your views.

I 100% disagree with your last paragraph. the nhs is better under this tory government, despite the disastrous economy labour left. labour are still obsessed with unions , quangos and cover ups. thats exactly what happened to the nhs and the disgraceful events of stafford hospital must NEVER EVER be forgotten. labour would never truly investigate their own unions and expose them. too many votes. so you end up with russian style cover ups. minus the plutonium, but the end results are just as deadly. its interesting to note under new labour as the government jobs/state grew out of control yet again and the waste did too....yet fewer people were sacked and fewer people were employed in investigating mistakes or with the ombudsman which fell apart

the disabled people will have a far better chance under this government. why? because the disabled keep their benefits and have them increased, the lazy workshy fops who scrounge off the state and refuse to work are being weeded out thankfully. there are millions of them , healthy often young people. the economy is miles stronger under the tories which in turn has put an extra million into work and brought the unemployment rate down to its lowest level in 6 years and growth at a record high. yes the figures are always doctored but measured on the same basis as under new labout, the tories have done infinitely better on the economy already.

however.....manufacturing industrial jobs should be top priority....better paid jobs should be a top priority. increasing minimum wage would be a big mistake as it will raise unemployment and inflation. the working tax credits system shouldbe simplified to encourage more to work and it should also be simplified with regards to housing benefits so people dont feel the fear of losing their rented homes

new labour created division, they festered the poltics of envy....they created the fakest shallowest society weve ever seen, with endless petty new laws invading every civil liberty...to such an extent that free speech no longer exists, conversation is bannned...anyone who even questions the prevailing thinking is cast out as a racist a sexist or bigot...whata dreadfully unhealthy state of mind...whilst all this politically correct drivel carried on unabataed by substandard politicians and journalists too scared to dare question it all......... we were preaching endlessly on minute petty political cirrect matters on race and religion..meanwhile we were bombing the hell out of these very same cultures and religions overseas? .a society was created purely about image and spin and buzzwords...as long as you were agood person on paper and no liability fell on your lap then all is fine...

actually being a good person was irrelevant, in fact it became frowned upon as strange, maverick and most such people got marginalized or ostracized, such as tony benn for example...mocked by new labour and their spin doctors as a dinasaur ...dinosaur my ass? he was a genuine and greta man who dared speak from the heart eloquently, decently and intelligently...beneath the expensive waste and gimmicks, vanity projects and illegal wars. I believe the last government was the worst in british history. the rich poor divide became wider than since the days of charles dickens. society became far far more broken up than even under thatcherism and whatever was left was broken up and handed to europe and the fragmented farce of devolution abnd endless more layers of burocracy, waste, civil service.... new labour totally corrupted britain from within

This is completely untrue and I have no idea where you are getting this from tbh. It has been proved 100x over that the work capability assessment are unfit for purpose and are not weeding out the fraud, instead they are punishing genuine disabled people. They were unfit under labour (who I believe, incidentally brought in ATOS to begin with) and the current government made it even harder to pass the ridiculous test. Doctors are against it.

When people die days after being pronounced 'fit for work', when people in constant pain recieve '0 points' and are forced to go on JSA, people with the mental age of children are apparently fine top work...come on. You know this isnt right. There are literally thousands of stories about people who are disabled being told they are not by ATOS.

Disabled people are being royally screwed over. Also, the majority have had benefits decreased, not increased, with the introduction of PIP instead of DLA...

Thanks Joey, and sincerely - the feeling is mutual. I truly respect your political knowledge, admire your passion and integrity, and love reading your posts.

I don't really feel that we're much apart on political thinking, not really considering all elements.

I just feel that it's a tragedy for the UK that we can't just select the best, most proficient, most passionate, most sincere politicians from all parties to form one Government, and take the best, most sensible policies from all parties manifestos to form one.

Well it will come as no surprise to say I disagree with most of that, after all we had terrible times and recessions under the previous 18 years of Conservative govt.
All our asssets were sold off to help cover that a little but the disastrous ERM joining fiasco and chaos that followed that were more signs of incompetence from the then Govt too.

I have to however and I am never likely going to change your mind but I need to say this.
The NHS was on its knees in 1997 at the end of the 18 years of Conservative govt.
I have an Uncle who is a Consultant, another who is a GP and 2 cousins who are Doctors in the NHS.I also have cousins employed as Nursing staff and in other care areas of the NHS.

They all say the NHS is in danger under this govt, they hated the reforms that were done without the public support and the clear thing is that the NHS needs regular and good investement and this gov. has no desire to go anywhere near enough to ensure that takes place.

Stafford was a disgrace, as were the deaths of people on trollies alongside wards under the Conservative govt of 1979 to 1997, where wards were closed to save on heating and not having enough Nurses to man them.
There will always be,to be fair, problems across the NHS in some places.

In something as large as the NHS and nationwide, it would be impossible for any govt. to not have some disasters and problems at times.
However, the NHS is in a lot of trouble again now, only 4+ years from these taking power,they carried out costly reforms no one wanted or voted for and that also were not in their manifesto either.
This has caused massive delays, confusion and disillusionment among NHS staff from Consultants to the nursing staff too.

I also take issue with you as to Labour and the Unions. why is it we get Labour and the Unions argument all the time while really big business and the Conservatives are let off unscathed.
Funding has to come from somewhere, the voters and taxpayers would not want to supply the funding for politicial parties so they need it from somewhere,and I see nothing wrong at all with the Unions supporting Labour, there would have never been a Labour party likely without the trade union movement.
Neither do I see anything wrong,with no other means in place, for big business to support and fund the Conservative party.
However, I don't think Labour is obsessed with the Unions at all, from the grumblings of the Union leaders,it is clear that Ed Miliband is not giving them what they want in any shape or form really at present.

In govt. it is rare to see big business turn against a Conservative PM and govt; that is not the case with Labour however from the late 70s.
It was in fact Unions that helped bring down the Labour govt in 1978/9 becasue that Labour Govt. was not doing what they hoped for in the end.
The Unions got next to nothing from Tony Blair's governments so I do refute your claim as to Labour and the Unions now at this time.

Not that I think all that Unions say and want are wrong either,however if Labour was obsessed as you say with the Unions, then Labour would be going much further as to policy and setting out to re-nationalise the energy industry, the water industry and the rail networks too, just to name 3.

Oddly enough, maybe the Unions are more in touch with a large public opinion because I actually believe were labour to at least be looking at taking back into state ownership the energy companies,that would,I think, have votes flying in to support that policy.

As I say I respect your views but I am not what could or should be termed a leftie,I don't call people righties.
I have moved across the political divide myself to be a now Labour supporter, in the hope of social justice, compassion and sensitivity in dealing with the most vulnerable.
I also believe strongly in a supported and nurtured NHS, I have seen no evidence at all of that from this govt. as to the NHS so that's another reason I crossed the political divide.
Not to be a leftie or a rightie or a centrist,just to see some decency come back to govt. policy and I see little in the way of understanding,caring and compassion on the things and people I have come to care about from this heartless govt.

I would like to see too, the unemployment figures with those on zero hours or 16 hour contracts a week added to it,what are the real unemployment figures for those 'not' in full time work,that don't include the zero hours so called employed and the small 16 hour contracts now in operation,especially in supermarkets.
All govts are clever at making statistics say what they want them to say.

As for the disabled getting increases, that is not so,I agree with Vicky above,who makes the points far stronger and better that I could.

Disabled benefits have increased in part but nothing like what they need to to have kept pace with the cost of living rises we have had under this govt for almost 3 tears in a row.
In fact the disabled are worse off now in real terms, as are in fact those workers in part time or zero hours contract work who are having to rely in part on 'further' benefits to help them just keep going.

The figures of unemployment and the employed are all well and good but the realities are, that those at the lowest end of the scale of things, those sick and disabled and unemployed are greatly worse off now than in 2010,even just after that global recession and banking crisis.

A banking crisis by the way that would have still hit everwhere anyway, especially in the UK no matter what govt. was in power, since the Conservatives actually strongly believed the Banking industry should have been 'less regulated' before that crash came.

That's so very true, all you and Vicky have said Joey and less regulation means less scrutiny into banking practices, no unions mean less workers rights... we are being dragged backwards at an alarming rate.
For as much progress society had made with productivity and industry in the UK it's all gone, there's nothing left but a hand to mouth existance for huge swathes of the country as it was circa 1900s.

I think that is seen by most of the electorate Kizzy, it is just the opposition to the likes of UKIP and the Conservatives are not banding under one party to ensure they are out.
However,I am not that fearful of the 2015 election, the Conservatives have never passed 37% in a general election since 1992,nearly a quarter of a century ago.

They are nowhere near that even now and I also believe that it is down to just over a third of voters who now have that more hardline thinking as to govt. policy.
So for me the Conservatives are never going to likely hit more than 35/6% in the future for possibly even more decades to come.
That will mean for sure, they will never likely get an overall majority,possibly even ever again.

All they have done in this Parliament is alienate most of the other parties.
There will, I think, be the strongest anti Conservative vote in the next house of commons that there has likely been from the other parties, save from UKIP and the DUP.

I think there has for a long time been a collaboration between the tories and UKIP, they are looking to be the next coalition that's why their MPs are interchangable.

you need more regulation and more scrutiny of nhs boards and the hospitals...you also need to seriously strengthen the powers of the ombudsmen and recruit more staff. the regulations themselves need to focus on the patients 100% and not the staff. the patients are what matters most. this message has been lost, hence why thousands have died from neglect at the hands of disgusting sub standard staff at our supposedly great british hospitals. this ALL happened under new labour. they should never ever be trusted again

there have never ever been diasters as big as that under any other government. worse still though labour actively sought to cover it all up. new labour didnt care about the lives lost, the stinking corruption, all they did was cover it up ignore it because they darent upset the nhs or nursing unions....votes and power meant more to them than lives. the uber liberal bbc barely even touched on these disgusting state of british hospitals and these monstrous scandals until years later and thousands more were dead. thousands actually died of thirst in our hopsitals, 25000 a year died from blood clots they picked up in british hospitals that were left undiagnosed, our hospitals were 70 times dirtier than scandinavian hospitals and mrsa was rife. new labour fiddled while the hospitals burned. im more than aware what maggie thatcher did to the uk and destroying manbufacturing. however new labour had ample time to overturn any of her policies and bring back the industrial strength and guess what they did nothing.

in 13 years they did what? destroyed our culture, sold us out to europe, created 1000s of new stupid laws, ruined our civil liberties, destroyed freedom of speech, destroyed families, created an entire generation of 10 million on welfare dependancy (attracting more easy long term voters for new labour) , deregulation of the banks and taking power from the bank of england, world record public and private debts, complete collapse of the housing market, failure to build social housing, illegal wars which saw over 1 million innocents killed, endless vanity projects costing tax payers 100s of millions like the dome, employing crooks in government, in bed with the tabloids , up to their eyeballs in spin bribes and backhanders, spindoctors running the cabinet, increased population of 8 million in less than 20 years due mainly to open door immigration policy with virtually no points system, unlike almost every other western country?....the list goes on and on..........end result....highest drug rates in europe, some of the highest violent crime per head in europe, virtual bankruptcy, teen pregnancies at all time high, enormous debts, 3 recessions, housing collapse etc etc the list of disasters goes on and on.........they achieved NOTHING

that is 100% wrong. the tories are scared to death of ukip fearing they will steal their far right voters. thats partly why ukip formed because cameron is seen as too liberal by the hardliners.

I agree completely,there are plenty of them in all parties and if they had the courage to speak out against the party machinery and say what they feel and the real changes they would love to bring about,what a truly great day that would be for the whole of the UK.

I also believe that many policies should not be aprty political football,things like the EU and immigration, the NHS and Education even too,should be an across the board policy brought about in rational way that all parties endorse and ensure stays in place, no matter what party wins power.

For me, it is the hacking away at the previous govts. policies and the endless reforms and changes,often more often than not unnecessary,that causes the problems and so continuity of policy and conditions never gets the chance to flourish.

If I ever do go into politics,I would spend most of my time, trying to persuade more and more MPs and candidates to help bring about a better politics.
To try in some small way to create a concensus as to politics.
Clearing out hopefully the false, and in fact often unnecessarily created, divisions and work on the things that unite rather than divide.

I have dealt with your NHS issues in a previous post however, I accept and understand and sympathise too that you have had very bad experiences with the NHS and the staff in it too,which you have outlined in posts in the past.
That should not be the case and so I understand your anger when things go wrong and are covered up or not dealt with.

However it is also a fact that for every one thing that goes wrong or is done wrong in the NHS, hundreds of things are done right are are right.

What I have to take you up on is the selling us out to Europe by Labour.
Not so.
The Conservative party,without any referendum, in 1973 took us into the Common Market of Europe.
They then ensured we moved closer and closer into Europe as it evolved especially in the early 80s when Tony Benn was considered a madman for opposing Europe and closer ties with same.

The biggest sell out to the EU was the Maastricht treaty,signed by John Major in the 90s and also had the ERM been a success rather than a massive failure when we went into that under same Conservative govt. then we would have had the Euro now too more than probably.

Despite the warnings from the Conservative opposition,of William Hague in 2001 and Michael Howard in 2005 as to us joining the Euro under Labour.
While Tony Blair would have possibly relished doing so, the then Chancellor Gordon Brown refused to support going into the Euro at all and no way were we then going to under Labour.

So if any party overall and in the main has sold the UK out to the EU and also never ever holding a referendum on any of its decisions as to the EU, well that is the Conservative party, not the Labour party.
Also had Labour won the 1983 election,then we likely would not still be in the EU now,it was the Conservative party that moved with the evolving of the EU right up to it leaving power in 1997.

major was a poor and weak pm
blair however was a devious runt and brown proved no better. the signing of the 587 page EU constitution was the end of britain in all but name. a total disaster that must be torn up and will be but it will take 20 years and yet more countries going bankrupt first. this constituion was light years away from the maastricht treaty which of course was also a poor move and never debated properly and fully explained to jo public. thatchers govt was the devil , whereas blairs was the devil in sheeps clothing, at least we could see thatcher coming

as for the nhs. this is nothing to do with my own personalise experiences. this is the country as a whole. though my own experiences have on the whole been poor and the lies ive been told are endless. this is NOt a minority issue as you paint it, the majority of nhs staff are forced to be duplicitous and conceal truths and lie on an hourly basis. its not about care or saving lives anymore its about covering ones own back. id also go so far as to have breathalyser tests for staff. the number of workers who turn up at hospitals still drunk from the night before is staggering. again this wont make the bbc news for a decade. when we will have a public enquiry into it donkeys years too late , just like everything else in broken britain. not fit for purpose.

:clap1: I actually have to agree with you here Vicky.

Based upon my own personal knowledge, I will be controversial and state that around 50% of people claiming benefits are doing so fraudently, and that these scavengers need their benefits stopping as soon as possible and made to repay those that they have received (or imprisoned).

Unfortunately for the tax-payer, every government initiative to catch out these fraudsters and strip away their benefits is – as you so rightly say – hitting the wrong targets, and genuine people who need financial help are unjustly having their benefits stopped, whilst the fraudsters breeze through the process with benefits intact.

This WCA test is actually a reincarnation of ‘The All Work’ test introduced in 1994 by John Major’s Conservative Government, and then - just as now – this test proved farcical and impotent, failed to strip fraudsters of benefits, but succeeded in stopping the benefits of genuine claimants.

Genuine claimants are – for the most part – law abiding and passive, and usually confused by, and intimidated by ’officialdom’, whilst fraudulent claimants are usually ‘street-wide’, ‘active’, very, very, devious, and ‘know the ropes’ when dealing with officialdom. It follows, therefore, that ‘soft’ targets are always the easiest targets.

At the time, I personally helped 8 people I knew to appeal when they had their benefits stopped after being wrongly found capable of work as a result of this test. I filled in their forms for them and even wrote what amounted to lengthy and scathing critiques of the ‘All Work Test’, and I am pleased to say that all 8 had their appeals allowed and their benefits reinstated as a result.

Below is an actual excerpt from one such appeal:

Somewhere in the UK, lying in bed is a man who has been paralysed for 20 years. Only able to move his eyes, this man was once was the recipient of national sympathy, but is now the object of universal hatred and scorn.

Why? Because under the rulings of the government’s recently introduced ‘All Work Test', the man has now been exposed as a work-shy malingerer and scrounger who has been in receipt of two decades of benefits when he could have been working.

A government spokesman yesterday confirmed that 47 year old Arthur Scrimsdyke had his entitlement to benefits removed because there was a job available to him which he had refused. When pressed for further details, the spokesman said;

“Well, ’The Society of Ugly Neglected Fishwives’ in Grimsby is advertising for a man – any man - to wink at them for 40 hours a week. Damn good pay at £1.20 per hour and a bonus if both eyes are used to wink with.”

The spokesman added that the controversial new WCA test has seen other scroungers lose their benefits nationwide: “The government is very proud that the new test is working. Thousands of epileptics have been found work; some have accepted jobs in Chinese laundries – a jolly well cushy number as well, if you ask me – standing by huge vats of dirty clothes all day and only being thrown in once a seizure starts. All that bally threshing and flailing of limbs soon has the clothes clean.”

Sometimes sarcasm and ridicule are powerful weapons.

:laugh: Are you joking?

I'm side-eyeing so hard I think my eyes are about to fall out the sides of my head

But yes go ahead lets blame the poor for the faults of this country. Such a spurious claim obviously ignores other places where money is lost but y'know, poor people. They're the real ****ers sending this country to the dogs aren't they? Not the rich bankers and corporate executives pillaging this nation for all its worth, huh?

Oh I have to disagree with the 50% figure, I could maybe stretch to,from my own experience of helping people on disabled benefits and my own gathering of knowledge as to the issue,4% to 5% as a maximum.

The problems are lying with the testing and assessing of the sick and disabled and the silly questions like can you out a pen in your top pocket, can you move a pint of milk from one place to another.
Ridiculously stupid questions like that,I child of just under 3 could do those things but certainly couldn't work.

I through the law firm I am with at present,and also my interests with certain welfare groups too, have been involved in part with appeals against losses of benefits,which the DWP said were wrongly being claimed.

The number of those appeals is rising ever upward and I have come across from my experience and others experiences too,hundreds of such appeals being made.
Hundreds being too the likely tip of the iceberg.

I also have yet to see an appeal not upheld by the court once it gets that far and the so called wrong payment of benefits, being fully restored.

It is this demonisation and wrong representation of the facts as to the disabled and sick that is adding to the massive stress they are already under with this govts.shocking welfare changes.
I guess it comes easy to demonise and attack the weakest in a society.
For me however, instead of attacking them, I'd prefer we were nurturing them and helping make sure they are being built up not brought down even more by joining in the pack attack on them.