Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 7601399)

My emoticons represented a thousand words! The shocked emoticon was to represent my fear for your safety after stating such things. The latter emoticon, because I dream of the world that you imagine in that post. My problem isn't with religion, or the religious, you see... it's more what the entire concept represents. People who are fearful and want to be "told" and "comforted" rather than to think and wonder and just be amazed by the Universe and all of its mystery. And a world where people need a reason, or bribery (heaven) or blackmail (hell) or an instruction manual to be good and moral people instead of just being good and moral people because they want to be and because it is right and fair.

I dream of a world where people don't need a book or preachers or anything other than their own philosophies and imaginations to be good, and to be inspired.


Sadly, I don't think there will ever be a day where that happens entirely. I think mass religion will be around for a long time to come - although I guess maybe not in terms of the entirity of human history. Maybe 500 years? However, I think for as long as there are humans, there will be pockets of religion. Most likely viewed by most as strange cultists. Some people seem to need (completely) that direction and instruction, those predefined safety nets to fall back on. People offering "answers", eternal life and salvation will always be able to find someone to follow them. Because the Universe is too impossibly complex and multi-layered for us humans to ever know or understand... and some people are just not ok with that uncertainty. They want to know, they want an answer, they want "it's God".

Originally Posted by kirklancaster (Post 7601405)

He is Muslim by birth, upbringing, and belief. There is no doubt there.

Originally Posted by Nedusa (Post 7601427)

Good Reply T.S........you speak a lot of sense, I too think people should take responsibility for their own existance and not look to delegate that responsibilty to people that peddle easy answers or solutions or promises of heavenly comforts.

We are all intelligent enough, evolved enough to understand that,as you say the Universe is multi layered and eternal and as such to assign such a marvellous thing to the work of a "God" is slightly defeatist and insulting to the Universe.

If religion is to survive it has to be transformed into a more of a belief in the cosmos and our place in it , what our place is and how we connect with the Universe and with each other. Not imagining we will all go to a place in the clouds and have all our desires granted where we will live on into eternity with our Creator....???? I mean with repect that is a lot of nonsense isn't it ?

I'm not anti religion per se but have issues with organised beliefs that connect us and control us more through a sense of fear and dread of the unknown.

Originally Posted by the truth (Post 7601771)

AGAIN YOU MAKE THE CATASTROPHIC MISTAKE OF LABELLING ALL RELIGIONS THE SAME...many people who are Christian for example are also scientists , in fact the majority of great scientists were religious...theyre totally separate subjects and they CAN co exist....many people believe in the symbolic allegorical meaning of religious texts, in particular Christians, you have all sorts of varieties such as agnostics too. Your post is patroninising twadlle, no offence

Originally Posted by Nedusa (Post 7601427)

Good Reply T.S........you speak a lot of sense, I too think people should take responsibility for their own existance and not look to delegate that responsibilty to people that peddle easy answers or solutions or promises of heavenly comforts.

We are all intelligent enough, evolved enough to understand that,as you say the Universe is multi layered and eternal and as such to assign such a marvellous thing to the work of a "God" is slightly defeatist and insulting to the Universe.

If religion is to survive it has to be transformed into a more of a belief in the cosmos and our place in it , what our place is and how we connect with the Universe and with each other. Not imagining we will all go to a place in the clouds and have all our desires granted where we will live on into eternity with our Creator....???? I mean with repect that is a lot of nonsense isn't it ?

I'm not anti religion per se but have issues with organised beliefs that connect us and control us more through a sense of fear and dread of the unknown.

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 7601799)

Not that old line again truth

you are confusing the fact that most people were religious (or said they were) in the 15th, 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th century

it was those great scientists who effectively killed religion in the 20th century

If you have the names of eminent 21st century scientists who are religionists then post them

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 7601808)

My cousin the physicist. I'm not posting his name... but he's a religious scientist and he's not alone.

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 7601436)

I don't know kirk, you can prove the first two claims and even state that he is by tradition and has a respect, or even bias, for Muslim culture using external evidence. I'm not saying I believe it, but it's valid to be able to claim to prove it. However, you can't state so certainly that he is "by belief", not unless the man outright makes such a statement. No one can know what his true beliefs are but the man himself. As LT says, he may well not truly believe in any of it (Islam, Christianity or any God at all), no matter what he has said or done outwardly.

Originally Posted by the truth (Post 7601771)

AGAIN YOU MAKE THE CATASTROPHIC MISTAKE OF LABELLING ALL RELIGIONS THE SAME...many people who are Christian for example are also scientists , in fact the majority of great scientists were religious...theyre totally separate subjects and they CAN co exist....many people believe in the symbolic allegorical meaning of religious texts, in particular Christians, you have all sorts of varieties such as agnostics too. Your post is patroninising twadlle, no offence

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 7601851)

Not alone but they wont make an effective gang if it kicked off

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 7600427)

No, no... it's in the Torah.

Moses proposes all Jews shall have big noses.
Except for Aaron, he'll have a square 'un.

Originally Posted by kirklancaster (Post 7602278)

"Noses and The Yearning Bush"

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 7603264)

Sounds like Jewish porn...

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 7603264)

Sounds like Jewish porn...