Thankfully, the law disagrees.

I think you're reading too much into this TS, there is a lot of horrible things going on in the world but it doesn't mean there's no room to be sad about a little doggie too.

There is room to be sad, it is sad, the whole situation is sad for everyone involved... but I still maintain that it's not even in the same ballpark as a human death and I still find it weird that people are quicker to react to it. And also, this idea that a dog's life is comparable to pretty much any human life is total madness. Unless we're talking about a truly horrendous human being, it just isn't.

Just for you TS :)

'THE Scottish SPCA is appealing for information after two Scottish holidaymakers found a dog at the summit of England’s highest mountain, and took him home to Ayrshire.

The dog, a male Collie cross aged between five and eight, is in the care of staff at the charity’s rescue and rehoming centre in Glasgow, and has been named Scafell after the Lake District mountain.'

http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/sspc...pike-1-3780647

Animals are superior to us humans. Humans are horrid creatures.

:clap1::clap1:

There really are, some absolutely rotten individuals who don't warrant being classed as humans.

I find this whole case beyond any understanding, even if the dog was barking continuously.

This story has literally upset me so much. What a repulsive ****. They can be such harmless creatures. I want to give my Alfie a big hug.

I felt the same as to the story and,thinking of my dog.
It brings it home to you that there are some intolerant and crazy nutters out there and you need to keep your dog/s safe.

Some of the points that TS makes are valid, although, I personally may have expressed them differently.

I remember during the first gulf war, there were many human casualties, and the world was knitting woolly jumpers to protect the birds from oil spills. Sometimes perspective is skewed

..it's sad that this thread got so off topic..not with the hypotheticals/analogies etc that may or may not have been relevant to this particular story...but more personal judgements of members...rather than think it a positive that some members who don't usually 'venture' into Serious Debates so much would feel passionate enough about something to want to, that something engages them in this section..?...and maybe holding on to that passion to see if they can be engaged more..they're being judged for not engaging in other things and other topics ...I mean really, that's such a negative view...also TS it's a 'dumbing down'..it's deciding and judging for them 'what is more important'..it's not encouraging young people to express themselves at all...and I don't think it's so much about not caring about things but just one possible indication why there is less venturing out of chat and games because so often members are judged for their opinions, rather than a countering of views when that opinion is not agreed with and an acceptance that we all don't have the same perspectives in our lives and trying to understand each others perspectives...is that not a large part of debate...

Its very Normal
you have all ages talking.

Some youngers
emotional etc.



If only that household
stopped the dog from barking.

A true dog lover
Never leaves a Dog Barking
Fact

..that's not a fact Arista...some dogs do bark a lot/as puppies and yeah the thing is discipline or 'puppy classes' to discourage that..but at the time that she was got as a puppy and their daughter was alive but severely disabled..as much as that should maybe have happened..?..that probably wasn't their priority or just something that they may have thought she would grow out of...but that doesn't mean that they are not dog lovers...and then when these things are not instilled with dogs from the off, it becomes much harder to change behaviour patterns, much the same as in humans...

Its is

I am talking about Dogs

Not Puppies


This case was neglect of that Dog
it was Doomed when they bought it, sadly

..the discipline with puppies and their behaviour/barking etc is very relevant to the dogs they are when they are older and in much the same way as humans..so maybe it wasn't there/we don't know..?..but that doesn't automatically translate to neglect either because it's very difficult to instil these things when behaviour patterns are set and as dogs are older... but in any case, I can see many things/priorities that may have meant it didn't happen and caused a very struggling family...and if we're to have understanding of the frustrations of the man who killed the dog/of the noise levels etc then it's having understanding of that as well..I mean if you're going to build up 'a picture'/scenario..then it has to be a complete picture ...anyway the whole noise level thing and his frustration are quite conflicted anyway with some reports saying he'd made complaints in the past and others saying that that him killing the dog was the first indication of there being any problem so we don't even know the truth of that...whatever though, I do not believe that the drowning of a dog, the time it takes to do that and see it's struggling for breathe and then the calculation of trying to cover it up is a split second of 'losing it'....

There seems to be so much confusion in yours - and certain other members - abstract thought processing T.S.

On other threads - notably concerning ISIS or CHRISTIANITY - when usually countering my views:

A) You DENY God and Creationism and condemn religion.
B) You ADVOCATE Darwinism and the secular accident of Evolution.

Therefore - by your own often expressed opinions - HUMANS are nothing more than just another species of ANIMAL.

We may be 'prima inter pares' - 'first among equals', 'top of the food chain' - but by your definition we are mere animals nonetheless.

Now on THIS thread, you plead the UNIQUENESS of humans above ALL animals?

Without GOD just WHY then do you propose that we are unique?

Dogs, cats, corvids, cetaceans, primates, and a host of other animals display moral, cognitive and conscious behaviour. Even the humble Flatworm has qualities we humans lack. So Humans are no more 'Special' than any other animals - in fact; the word “special” is merely the adjectival form of “species”.

So being on an 'Equal Footing' with any other animal, is one human's LOVE and FONDNESS for his/her DOG any LESS VALID than another human's LOVE and FONDNESS for another human?

NO.

As humans we form attachments/relationships to satisfy our social needs - be they with other humans, with pets, or both, but INVARIABLY, a human-pet relationship is simpler and safer than human-human relationships, as equally rewarding, and involves less risk.

Pets - especially DOGS - can be accepting, openly affectionate, honest, loyal and consistent; all qualities that satisfy a person‟s basic need to be loved and feel self-worthy.

Unlike humans, Dogs will rarely 'Bite-The-Hand-That-Feeds-Them', and a dog's love is often more genuine, intrinsic, and instinctive.

So I will come to your statement that:

"And also, this idea that a dog's life is comparable to pretty much any human life is total madness"

And say; No - it is NOT madness and you are wrong.

The day I see a dog abduct a child from its mother, take it onto bleak moorland, torture it, then murder it.

The day I see a dog behead a cowering innocent human.

The day I see a dog set fire to a terrified innocent schoolteacher and burn her alive.

and the day I see a dog mercilessly beat an 84 year old pensioner to death after he has already surrounded his life-savings

is the day when I will agree with you and apologise to you.

He is far more than a 'killer' Dollface. He is a dangerous and evil psychopath.

If I punch a man in a fight and he dies from that action - I am a killer.

I am a 'killer' as distinct from a 'MURDERER' because it was not my intent to kill him and his death was accidental.

If a tiny innocent and trusting 3 year old child was playing in her OWN garden and I entice her to the fence, pick her up, spirit her away to an already prepared place of EXECUTION replete with bucket of water and sharp knives, then drown her and disembowel her, then go to well thought out lengths to hide - both her remains AND my crime ---- then I am a COLD, CALCULATING, SERIOUSLY DANGEROUS PSYCHOPATH.

There may be a difference between a little CHILD and a little DOG but that is THE ONLY DIFFERENCE - everything else is constant.

This bastard is a sick psychopath, His crime is abhorrent, and he SHOULD have been locked away - both as PUNISHMENT and PREVENTATIVE DETENTION.

I have a lot of sympathy for this poor man, driven to despair by this yappy little rodent. Forced to finally silence this dogs incessant barking he should not been put in that position by his selfish uncaring neighbours.

Glad he escaped jail over this , and it sends a message to owners of other uncontrollable dogs

..while I do have sympathy with his frustration/reduced quality of life with the noise...(if indeed it was to the extent that it was constant and persistent etc...he was not forced to the extreme that he took, it was totally his choice and ownership of...and if it had been a neighbour's baby crying night after night and day after day or just general noise from a child...people don't just naturally and generally 'snap' to the extreme that he apparently did, that takes a particular kind of psyche to do that/to be capable of actually doing what he did...

He wasn't 'forced' into anything, had he reacted like a normal person none of this would have happened

The fact people are actually glad he escaped jail :umm2: It's sick.

May I please ask do you have any pets Nedusa,if you have had or do, how would you feel yourself if someone, as to any reason, killed your pet, cut it open and then tried to cover the deed too.

If anyone owns a dog that killed someone,thereby afterwards being termed a 'killer dog',in law now, that owner could be imprisoned for a time.
I see little difference myself for doing so to 'dog killers' too.

A dog barking is not out of control, it requires some training admittedly and perhaps more attention too,which is what it could be likely asking for by barking anyway.

A dog out of control is a dog that attacks others and cannot be stopped.
It doesn't bother me but I am woken a few times often by Cats in the street or garden where I live,fighting with each other or when they get a bird.
I certainly wouldn't go out and drown them,cut them open then try to hide the fact I did so.

How you can term this man a poor man, is sorry,for me, unbelievable.

oh my ****ing god
pathetic

I can pinpoint the exact moment I fell out of love with my ex partner. He was describing a previous relationship where he and his ex partner had shared a flat, a friends dog had had puppies and they asked to have one. After caring for this puppy for around 6 to 8 months they became 'bored' of the dog, so they drove somewhere many miles away and left it there.
Our relationship continued for a while as we had a child but he was no longer the man I thought he was due to this.

Anyone can suffer from a temporary psychotic break. Anyone. I know that this is difficult for people to accept or believe; "No one who isn't evil could ever do anything like that" etc. etc. but that's actually quite a dangerous mindset. Fleeting psychotic episodes are a very real thing and you have no idea if it could happen to you. It is absolutely right to feel sympathy for someone in this situation, if they feel remorse.

To address what some people were saying earlier, also: no, it actually doesn't follow that it's "a good thing it wasn't a screaming baby!". People have a strong instinctive bias to not harm human infants. During a psychotic (or "rage") episode, those instinctive and subconscious controls are still very much in place. There are no such instinctive controls when it comes to non-human animals, our connection and love for animals is conscious and sentimental. People not wanting to believe that does not change the facts.

There is a huge amount of cognitive dissonance going on here. He MUST be an evil pre-meditated dog murderer because;

1) He sneakily lured it over to carry out the plan

(Well no, it's equally plausible that it was barking at the fence and he was leaning over telling it to shut up and then eventually snapped and grabbed it)

2) He must have had the bucket of water sitting ready

(This one is actually daft. Would you really plan to kill a dog by drowning it? It seems needlessly complicated and it's far more likely that there simply happened to be a bucket in his garden nearby that had filled with water)

3) He cut the dog to pieces and pulled its guts out to remove the microchip

(Surely some willful ignorance going on here? Microchips are on the back of the neck just under the skin, you can feel where they are, especially on a small animal, and it would take little more than a tiny cut to then remove it. This is sensationalism.)

4) He covered up the "murder" afterwards.

(So his blind rage passes, he reaslises he has done something morally abhorrent [and it is! No one is saying that it isn't ffs, not even the guy who did it!], and his first reastion is amazingly NOT to run around telling everyone what he's done and hand himself in to the police. He tries to hide his shame. I maintain that this is 100% normal and that the vast majority of people who have done something terrible and inexplicable would panic and try to figure out how to hide it.


These things happen to people. Normal people. I understand that that's scary, and that there's a good reason that people want to reject it as "unthinkable", "couldn't possibly happen to them or anyone else who isn't a monster for that matter", but hiding under the bed with your fingers in your ears is quite unlikely to change facts. Abnormal psychology is scary and can affect anyone. Deal with it.


There's far too much black and white reasoning going on in this thread, what has happened here has a massive grey area. Do I think it's nice that a dog was killed and was probably distressed during? Of course not, it's a horrible thing to happen. But no, I certainly don't think that this man deserves for his life to be over because he suffered a clear, brief and - sentiment aside - relatively minor break in his mental health brought on by - reading between the lines - the incessant noise of a bored and neglected dog that was left yapping in its garden for hours on end. I VERY MUCH doubt this dog had only been barking for a few minutes, and it clearly wasn't supervised... so it had been barking, outside, on its own, for a prolonged period of time. A lot of people who claim to be "dog lovers" seem to be very quick to overlook the fact that this is NOT caring for a dog well.

You speak as though you were there TS. :/
It's all supposition, you don't know the circumstances or what occurred pre or post attack, nor are you privvy to the mind of the man then or now so your summation is irrelevant.