That’s odd, when I left school it was between college, sixth form and apprenticeship because the latter did count as education. Unless they changed it since?

At the moment, yes. But obviously if additional things were in place, this would be adjusted.

:suspect: Stepson says hes not allowed to do the appreticeship that he wants, as been told he has to do 'normal' education instead. I wonder if part of the problem is that the apprenticeship he wants to do..has a half decent wage. Its something like 6 quid an hour, which would be classed as too good for a 16 year old..which again is utterly crap. Saying that they have to work for pennies, when proper wages are available.

Meanwhile, ****ing subway refuse to pay their staff properly and instead all their positions are 'apprenticeships' so they can get away with paying next to nothing. Apprenticeship in sandwich making man..give me strength..

My Mam used to say "They go in a boy and come out a man " This can only do good IMO

In my eyes, what Rory has put on the table is just yet another way for businesses getting out of having to fork out another wage, why do that when they can just get a youngster in to do it for free?

I'd make old bigots volunteer at asylum seekers detention centres

Force someone into war, there’s a very high chance that they’ll die, therefore young people would be forced into a situation where they’re very likely to die, that’s it

My grandson has been told if he gets an apprenticeship he can leave at 16

Sorry, I misread your comment. I thought you were saying that there was nothing in place at all for 16-18 year olds.

But tbh, I think people would find it harder getting a start in adult life at 16 with just GCSE’s, than at 18+ with A Levels and Degrees. Everywhere you look are desperate for people with further education - they’re not bothered what in but having those higher qualifications shows them you have what it takes to work in adult environments.

And besides - there’s lots of different options. I don’t do well with exams or studying, so sixth form wasn’t for me and I picked a vocational course at college where there’s 40% theory work and 60% practical. Now I’m looking at my next steps, I decided against uni because I don’t like that environment but I’m looking between an apprenticeship and a HND - both more relaxed environment.

So I find it hard to believe this system is forcing people to do something when there’s so many different options.

Thats all it ever is. Excuses to not pay properly, and not give proper workers rights.

Similar to 'workfare' schemes. Where, if these pisstaking employers just paid the staff as they should, then the person who is made to work for free, would be off the dole and have a decent bloody wage. But no, lets punish those who are out of work by giving employers a chance to get free workers, meanwhile the person with no job still has no job or wage, but is working 40 hours per week, and still being referred to as lazy scum because they have to claim JSA to survive, while doing a fulltime job. Ugh. This topic makes me rage so much, its vile, yet people support it because 'lazy scroungers'..meanwhile the lazy scroungers are doing more actual work than those calling them lazy scroungers.

He wasn't talking about young people stacking shelves in Tesco, it was community projects. That's the sort of thing which councils usually do rather than businesses.

Pretty much

Community projects like what, litter picking, communal gardening, looking after old folk? All things that people could and should be paid to do, it’s just another way to vilify the young and get away with free labour

But, the bootcamp kinda thing I was talking about was not about sending anyone to war, I think thugs and criminal offenders would benefit from learning some manners and respect and how to behave and maybe learn a trade and work hard would be more beneficial that letting them roam feral or putting them in prison

I agree 100%

At college we are currently being encouraged to do ‘industry placements’.

We would basically go to a company for a week, complete work they need doing, and all for free. Now this in itself is a bad idea, as all we gain from it is a little experience. But in the field I’m in, filmmaking, it’s a tough job making an entire film or advert solo, and for free. There’s the casting, planning, filming, editing, sound production, rendering etc - and to do that alone for no money is just something I’d rather not do. Especially when we are so used to working in groups where everyone can focus on their strong suit.

When we are giving them a skill, talent, whatever you call it, it’s the kind of thing I expect to be paid for. Yes I’m just starting out, so I’m not asking for much as it’s not the same quality as an industry professional, but it’s passable work and not something that in the industry would be given as a freebie.

That works in theory. However realistically, thugs and criminals are not really going to learn anything, regardless of how many bootcamp type things you put them through.

Also, I have no issue at all with people thinkng of ways to sort out criminals and that. Its when its just applied to 'the young' in general and its made out that 'the young' are all lazy ****ers who would benefit from being put on the frontline or something because some of them are lazy (just like older people..oddly enough. Lazy people will always exist in all sections of society) that it kind of gets my back up.

I mean, am not even part of 'the young' now, but I still feel defensive when older people just demonize them constantly. Especially given how much bloody harder it is for younger people these days compared to like..30-40 years back when those complaining about the young were young themselves. Back when you could buy a house with a years wage, and there were numerous jobs available. Its so much worse for the young' these days. Obviously not compared to..like war times, before someone tries being clever. But things today compared to when boomers were starting out...

I mean, as an example theres 'I had bought a house and had a job when I was 20' people..because those today struggle to get on the ladder, this mean they are lazy. No, its damn near impossible to buy a house when young today, unless your family has money, and if your family buys it for you, its not you earning it is it..

But with respect, that wasn’t the topic at hand, the question that was posed about specifically about national service, a scheme that specifically targeted young people just because they were born after a certain time, whether they’ve broke the law or not

In my experience old people are the worst; rude, entitled, ignorant, what about those sorts of people, who just sit and knit all day? Should something be done about them? :think:

My first, and only, industry placement was for a local musician who wanted a music video but wouldn’t give me any direction. I made one. He didn’t like it. He didn’t use it. I re aimed unpaid, for what frankly was a waste of my time.

you do realise that your words are 100% discriminatory

No more discriminatory than saying young people are lazy, lowlife scrowngers that sit and play Xbox all day

Yup, you are working, even though you are learning, and should be paid for it.

Its odd, when people think stuff lie this is ok because 'lazy young', should work for free, but then complain that they have to claim JSA or whatever to survive on. Like, you cannot logically agree with both forcing people to work for free, but also complain that they have no income.

I think even learning on the job stuff should be paid. I think workfare and the likes should be done away with and employers should be made to pay proper wages when people work for them, rather than picking from an endless pool of unfortunate people who have to do all the bad sides of working without the one upside, which is a wage and cash to do what you want. I also think employers such as subway, should be made to pay properly rather than using 'apprenticeship' as a way to pay half, or less. Its horrible and exploitative and absolutely should not be encouraged or allowed.

And you consider a “man” to be what exactly? Someone who’s prepared to put themselves in front of a fired gun?

Pretty much and it’s gross but you should pull up others for doing it too about the younger generation. Young and old are as bad as each other.