I've never personally seen anyone ousted because they still enjoy Harry Potter or something like that. :shrug:

‘Ripped to shreds’ how?

I don’t believe any institutions actually punish people for having a difference of opinion, I just don’t, it would be grounds for wrongful dismissal for a start and whoever these ‘cancelled’ people say they’ve been cancelled for an opinion, there’s always something else that comes out that contradicts their stories.

Is that because of the confusing double-negative or because there actually are some institutions that are expressly forbidding some topics? Usually when I see it, it's that some researchers will try to propose papers but with "warning: this is a minefield area, enter at your own risk" disclaimers attached to the proposal.

No, but I think that's because generally (thus far at least) people can separate an artist from their work, thankfully. I mean for example I love many Stephen King books but I wouldn't let the man babysit my kids, some of his stuff is very questionable.

So no I don't think people would be ousted for still liking Potter stuff. I do think people would be at risk of being ousted for saying "Well I don't totally agree with her but is there a wider discussion to be had here?". The issue of the potential, or even just the fear, of women's right being eroded due to carelessness in other areas is red hot. The anger surrounding it is very real. I don't really know why it has to be, but it is, and the fingers-in-ears refusal to go there and to reject people who are willing to go there is going to come to a head at some point.

Again the irony that I always sadly come to, is that I thi k it's inevitable that transpeople are the ones who will be worst affected when it does.

The double negative I can cope with. I read some of my own posts sometimes and wonder what my old English teacher would think! Just some more info on academics not being allowed to do research.

Telling people certain subjects are sensitive and they should take caution with how they go about it isn’t forbidding them from talking about it, it’s a very sensible approach to sensitive subjects, it’s common decency to be sensible and respectful when discussing nuanced things

It's not caution about how they go about it, the proposal is an invitation to participate and the warning is that the premise of the paper is LIKELY to result in backlash, and that they should consider the risk level before agreeing to co-author.

Then the same thing stands, it’s a warning that it could cause backlash, so they know it’s a sensitive subject, that still doesn’t equate to certain subjects being forbidden, advised against because it could cause upset or controversy maybe, but not forbidden, that’s leaving it up to personal choice, that’s the exact opposite of being silenced or forbidden

I think it was my double negative then - I was saying that they're NOT expressly forbidden by their employers, but choose not to engage anyway because of the risks of pressure groups putting a spotlight on them afterwards. I did actually read something recently about some new legislation designed to protect academic discourse. All a bit vague though, I don't even know if it's through or just an idea.

The effect is the same though, the pressure of public shaming and the threat of a pile-on is as effective as legislation if not moreso. I'm not really talking about whether or not "cancellation attempts" should be allowed either... Just whether or not they're a good idea ethically and in terms of real progress.

You can’t say that people are being ‘forbidden’ to discuss certain things by institutions if they’re not, they can talk about whatever they want to talk about, but they have to be aware that certain things are going to cause certain reactions and they should be ready for that, they’re scared of something that is being sensationalised by people acting with ulterior motives

I didn't though, I said they're not forbidden, I am taking full responsibility for the confusion here though because I actually used the word "not" three times in one sentence [emoji23]. If anything deserves a public shaming it's this mess.


"The reason that academics and professionals are not having these discussions or doing this research is not that they are literally not allowed to do so."

i think you needed to add a couple of wherefore's for clarity

...(...I don’t think it’s about conversations being silenced or cancelled or etc...)...it’s more that social media is not and never has been the right platform to have them in because of the nature of the beast...and it’s the same for many topics, especially those that evoke more passionate opinions...

...did Bots just cancel TS..?..

I won't disagree about that Ammi - I'm not a fan of Twitter or any other social media other than for a bit of fun. I love the Twitter memes when Love Island is on for example - one of the main reasons to watch the show in the first place :hehe:. But for serious topics? I think it's a disaster quite honestly and sadly, a disaster that sometimes spills out into reality a little.

Facebook if anything is even worse. Local pages are handy for finding a local gardener or finding out why there's a power cut... but even THOSE have been getting really toxic lately :umm2: (the local pages, not the gardeners).

Bin the whole thing, chalk it up as a horribly failed social experiment.

Cancel culture is indiscriminate, it can affect both left and right imo, the difference is the approach to the subject both approaches to say, trans rights will be 'cancelled' if not 100% in favour...but the reasoning and the explanation for any challenge is wildly different.

Look at the newsnight interview with Germaine Greer, I was in total agreement with her views there which of course makes me as 'cancelled' as her, being a left leaning person this is new territory, however as a principled person I accept it. I take ownership of my opinion.

As said the problem is now not only opinions that are challenged and 'cancelled' but academics and sociologists who cite studies and reference known facts as they don't fit in to the modern narrative as chanted by the social media mob. The sheer volume of discord that erupts following a controversial comment or point of reference is immense.

That to me has never been right, if 100,000 people felt a certain way and I didn't and I had peer reviewed study to back my theory nothing and nobody would sway me, in this instance cancel culture is a bastardisation of what it should be... a way of putting an end to predudice, lies and misinformation.

This !

So true. I have people on FB and Instagram that post stories saying they will delete anybody with differing political views or any criticism in response to certain topics... it’s ridiculous that people can’t accept differing views now... instead just throw a hissy fit

The true utter bull**** is what you've decided to spew over your keyboard in response. It's just gullible reactionary crap and no amount of flowery language will change that.

Your argument is fraught with nonsensical hysteria and ignorance. There ain't no one getting cancelled for nothing, sometimes you get psychos like Amber Heard that mislead and paint themselves as victims but most of the time, people act on the words and actions of others.

There's a difference between an opinion and hatred which is why hate speech isn't covered by freedom of speech. If someone spews hatred, it's the right of others to decide if they don't want to support that person.

Honestly, you only have to look as far as the metoo movement to see that you're talking rubbish, there's plenty of people who spoke out in favour of Metoo only to be revealed to be abusers themselves and left wing people weren't like 'you might be an abuser but you say the right things so it's k'. No, they hung them out to dry just as much as other abusers.

Honestly, if you like sitting on the fence then sit on the fence, don't need to write all that to try to justify doing so.

The only 'academic' I can think of lately that's been cancelled is that racist historian and that was completely justified.

...that’s why I don’t really buy into ‘cancel culture’, I don’t think...(...or labels in general tbh...)...because I don’t think it’s that any conversations/debates/discussions etc are being stopped so much as they will become non starters in the first place on any social media site that is more a place of reactive stuff...it’s always been that way, though...choosing the right platform for debate and opening the debate in the right way are key ‘ingredients’....and obviously, that’s especially applicable for subjects which are highly sensitive in their nature...

I'm not on the fence on this issue at all, I have no idea where you'd get that impression, but I can see that you're committed enough to the dogma to be incapable of having any debate on this issue (or any, recently?) that isn't set in concrete - and that isn't a debate at all. Ad hominem after ad hominem with zero scope for nuance. What on earth happened?

You say that no one gets cancelled for nothing - no one has said that they are. From the perspective of the people trying to do the cancelling. People are "cancelled" (or an attempt is made) for people not thinking as they think, or expressing the things they would like them to express, and because those people are so sure of their inherent "rightness" anyone who has a contrary opinion has "done wrong" from their perspective. That's half of my issue with it. My other half is that the whole thing relies on derpy mimicking from people who seemingly have little capacity for independent thought, in order to achieve a goal through "strength in numbers".

Finally, your suggestion that advocating for reasoned debate and intellectual rigour over aggressive single-minded partisan extremism constitutes "fence sitting and flowery language" is just several rungs below what I'm willing to engage with currently. I'm not going to any more.

I think a lot of people are going a bit gaga with the various isolations and lockdowns, along with the mental health issues the pandemic is causing (hello!) so people having a shorter fuse than normal and less truck with things is to be expected.

A nice walk in the park and and a (socially distanced!) to friends and familys gardens might do a world of good :)

The term “cancelled” is so Black Mirror.