Game spoiler: Abby in the game is HENCH and kills Joel by caving in his head with the golf club - show Abby is skinnier so I get why they changed it to her stabbing him with the broken end of it... it somehow seemed even more brutal that way, though. But I guess also saved them from having to create a Pedro Pascal prosthetic with a bashed-in head :umm2:. A "cleaner" death, in that sense.

Also it was interesting that they divided the characters up differently. Game differences:

It's Ellie and Dina on patrol together, not Ellie and Jessie.

Joel is on patrol with Tommy.

That scene is otherwise the same (Tommy in Dina's place) except that he gets hit in the head and knocked out, rather than injected with anaesthetic.

Dina and Jessie together find Ellie and knocked-out Tommy in the aftermath.

The attack on Jackson doesn't happen at all.

I actually understand all of those swaps to be fair - the Jackson attack makes sense because I always wondered where the infected hoard went in the game! After Abby/Joel/Tommy escape from them (and the lodge scene plays out) it just sort of cuts back to Jackson where everything is fine. Other than Joel being dead. Where did all the infected go? Never answered it's never mentioned again :joker:.

Also as they skipped the Joel/Tommy/Abby infected fighting they needed a replacement sequence for action + showing Tommy to have skillz.

There's a much longer sequence of Abby/Joel/Tommy fighting off infected together after Joel saves Abby, which IMO makes the killing more shocking/brutal, as they've been fighting side by side in the lead up to it.

Abby doesn't find out that Joel is Joel until after they get back to the ski lodge when he introduces himself (at which point she kneecaps him with the shotgun same as the show).

It was less tense if you've played the games 'cos everyone knows that the flamethrower is an effective choice against bloaters :joker:

Follow on from the above here's an interesting thought - Abby in show stabs Joel in the neck, game Abby kills him by bashing his head with the club. However... in the first game Joel kills Abby's dad by stabbing him in the neck (with his own scalpel) whereas in the show he shoots him. I wonder if Joel being stabbed in the neck in-show is a nod to that?

Is it fully going to go the same direction with Abby being a protagonist/following her story/getting to know her like the game does? I reckon show-watchers are going to be so confused when the show starts following her as not-a-villain :joker:

I think so, actually i think it's a cool idea for a TV show anyway to flip it like that. Myself and Luke had an argument about this last night, I could totally see Abby's side(he just hates her), Joel did kill her dad after all (yes I know he was saving Ellie but Ellie could have been the key to saving everyone and imo should have been her choice anyway rather than Joels)

While I also sympathise with Ellie, I've played through TLOU2 3 times now and I am totally Team Abby in terms of the events of the game. Also part of the point of it is to draw a parallel between them / the cycle of revenge, and get you to see that Ellie would 100% have done exactly the same as Abby in the same situation ... and what she ends up doing in in places morally very dark. 'cept "Manny" (the guy who swore at Joel's dead body as they left) that a-hole totally deserved to die. In the game he spits on him as they leave... guess the show writers thought that was a step too far :umm2:... though I actually think it was written as one of the things that fully pushes Ellie over the edge.

But yeah basically as much as I love TLOU1 Ellie, I found myself ever-so-slightly siding with Abby's POV in 2 :omgno:. What Joel did was horrific. Joel himself knew it and it left him kinda broken. There's a reason he knew straight away that they were ex-Fireflies... probably always suspected they might come for him if there were any left.

I haven't played the game like i said so while I have an idea of the story line It will still all be new to see it from Abby's POV, it's a good concept, uncomfortable yes but a lot of situations aren't black and white and there's always 2 sides so I'm sad Joel's dead but I'm excited to see the different perspectives as well, you don't usually get that in TV Shows

…seriously I didn’t think that muther was ever going to die…it was a bit obvious though when they were having the ‘drill recap’ that the hoards were going to come…

…Joel’s death is one of the most sad as well for me because Pedro Pascal is as hot as heck on screen every week…

two horses go...they went out with 4 horses and came back with two, the ex fireflies did not take them so...

So, the game contains several "flashback scenes" (quite long/extended scenes that could basically each make a full TV episode) between Ellie and Joel from the time between them moving to Jackson and where the show/game picks up 5 years later - so I imagine we haven't seen the last of Pedro, even though Joel is now gone.

Honestly TLOU2 is a huge game in comparison to the TLOU1... a LOT happens... so unless they cut out large parts I would think it's more than one season's worth of TV. I have a suspicion about where they'll end S2. But tbh it could easily be 3 sull seasons :umm2:

I think they may end S2 at the point where Abby catches up with Ellie and ***LARGE SPOILER*** kills Jessie and shoots Tommy, and potentially end S3 with the end of the Seattle storyline, then flesh out the post-seattle / Ellie's 2nd search for Abby section into an entire 4th season.

Joel had a horse, Dina had a horse, Ellie had a horse and Jessie arrived on a horse... the fireflies left with 0 horses... Jessie, Ellie and Dina left with two horses between the three of them... WHERE are the two other horses? I honestly think it's a "goof" or writing error, there's no explanation for it at all :joker:. The most you can say is, horses CAN be trained to "return home" riderless if instructed, but there's no reason they wouldn't just have both of them ride alongside even if Ellie wasn't up to riding a horse by herself.

I was fully expecting to see Joels body slung across a horse but no he was being dragged unceremoniously by a rope :fist:

When I saw the rope, I was just thankful that he was in a bag at the end - I thought for a minute they were just dragging him along by the ankles :joker:

Did the one horse have the extra passenger and have to pull the dead body too :fist:

But because of the snow
and they wrapped his body up,
so much, it was OK

…it’ll be interesting to see…(…if they’re following that same storyline as the game…)…how it translates to all of us who aren’t familiar with the game…because gaming is a different perspective in that the player has an active part and that active part gives other perspectives that we can’t feel as just viewers of the TV story …and also, those who have played the game and are familiar etc…?… will have already made that transition if you like, to see Abby in a more positive way…so going forward, whatever path the story takes, it’ll be easier to slot into it and find an understanding of it… on the screen, that image of her atm is only that of disturbing and brutal and cruel …I understand that Joel killed her father …?… and an eye for an eye in revenge etc…but she didn’t want that eye for an eye, did she…her aim as she said, wasn’t to kill him…it was to kill him slowly and painfully and brutally…that’s not something that ever entered his head in killing Abby’s father …even her fellow fireflies who knew her search for revenge…?..were seen looking sickened with what she was doing…/…the method…so yeah, it’ll be interesting to see going forward how any or enough positive light with Abby can translate to any non game players…

I agree that Abby's revenge went too far but that's really part of the plot and it's something that Abby comes to realise; that it didn't help her, it didn't make her feel better, and that it just continued the cycle of violence and revenge... and you can't look too harshly on Abby compared to Ellie as Ellie also goes down a dark path with Joel's death.

In-game Abby also ends up being a "protector" to a younger character much like Joel was to Ellie in the first game/season and there's a bit of subtext that she starts to realise and understand more why Joel did what he did to protect Ellie. There's supposed to be a sort of irony in all of it in that you get an impression that Abby and Joel are quite similar and would have liked/respected each other if they'd met under other circumstances. I dunno if it'll work the same way in the show because Abby in the game is an absolute tank, built like a brick shithouse and hard as nails, so it's very convincing that she acts as a protector to the younger character... in the show I don't know how it'll work as she's tiny :joker:.

…in say a James Bond game…?…we could see James Bind die and die again, couldn’t we because we have that objective of keeping him alive and that would be our focus plus making sure we blast every single bad guy off the screen…but that’s an entirely different perspective to seeing James Bond die in the screen and such a brutal death and how we’d feel about his killer……

A lot of TLOU players absolutely hate Abby and hated being "forced to" play as Abby after she killed Joel... and I actually think that's a big part of why and what made the game so interesting and something very different; you play through the whole first game AS Joel and as you say, he's the one you're keeping alive, he's the guy who represents YOU and who you're playing as... and then in the 2nd game you play for a bit as Ellie, and then a little bit as Abby when she's introduced and you fight alongside Joel... and THEN the scene comes where Abby kills Joel with Ellie forced to watch. It's so jarring I think specifically because of that firs game being all playing as Joel... and now this new character who you've played as has killed him :umm2:. Then you play something like a whole 6+ hours as Ellie, then it pulls a massive twist and you play through that same 3 days you've just seen from Ellie's perspective as Abby again. People really did not like it at all and resented playing as her, there was so much anger about it online :joker:. It might be a bit lessened in the show since it's just "watching" from Abby's perspective, rather than actually "being Abby".

When I played the game I was devastated.. but it sets the premise for the rest of it, and it has some really beautiful parts to come if the show follows true to the game.

Love the ending, showing the overgrown City
ahead

…it’s a bit was a good episode…the opening conveyed the sadness so well that was felt at the loss of Joel…the episode really put the breaks on after last week but it was just what was needed and Ellie’s pleading her case for justice for Joel was heartbreaking…</3…

I loved the part where Ellie's face changed as she was exiting the hospital, from relaxed and friendly to absolutely furious! I am surprised her and Dina haven't canoodled yet either! Their relationship is going a lot slower than the game!