The mistakes of translators of Holy Quran can be attributed to God, thats why Arabic txt should bought by non-muslims and muslims and the translation version

"Kabaa the cube shrine of Mecca is believed to be centre of the earth, then would you convert to Islam"

Can you explain what you mean by this? It didn't make much sense to me :puzzled:

The centre of the earth, is the 'core':

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_Core

This is NOT a fact. The meteorite that potentially wiped out the dinosaurs is thought to have hit the gulf of Mexico- though there are now many other theories as to how the dinosaurs could have died out including- climate change.

Also, even if a meteorite hit the earth, this doesn't make it the 'centre of the earth'. The centre of the earth is and always will be the core.

You say it isn't true that women are "treated inferior" because of Islam, but this simply isn't true in all countries.

Here is the first part of a documentary showing how women are treated in Afganistan:

I got that wrong about dinosaurs, I meant it was the first meteorite that hit earth, accroding to astronimical books.

Afghanistan is a third world country and I agree they do treat women badly, but these are not the word of prophet, Prophet never said a women cant go to school or open their own business or work in the community, please do a bit more research on rights of women layed out by Prophet Mohammed. i dont blame them for not reciving proper teachings of Islam, the Prophet Mohammed who revolutionised the world even according many non-muslims such as Michael Hart in the book of most influential person in the history, Professor keeth moore, and many countries Islam was spread without any sword because of the teachings of mohammed they loved.

You said women were not 'treated inferior' and in the context of Islam- I was just telling you this isn't true. And it is irrelevant as to whether or not you personally, think they are following the "proper teachings" of Islam. They do believe they are acting in the name of Islam and it is that, that is causing the damage. And can I just point out that although Afghanistan is probably the worst offender- it isn’t the only Muslim country to treat women badly in the name of Islam.

Maybe you should do a bit of research on that before you make such blanket statements? It's not about the 'original teachings'- it is how they are interpreted by people.

Again I would advice you not to relate one particular minority with religion, there ar high crime rates in America and UK who break their law, does that mean I would put a stereotype that America and UK are intolerant country, simply no as those citizen have done something that is aginst the laws of their country, in the same way Afghanistan have broken the law of Prophet mohammed's laws and message. By the way to me, I think women are treated more inferior in the west than in an Islamic country.

I have some questions:

Are women in Saudi Arabia allowed to drive yet?

How would a gay person be treated in Saudi Arabia or any Muslim country?

How would a woman that cheated on her husband be treated there or in any Muslim country?

How would a woman that chose to wear something other than a religious garment be treated?

How would a woman or man, born in Saudi arabia be treated if they weren't Muslim?

All things that are, for the most part, pretty acceptable now in the west...

And you can think whatever you like about how badly you think women are treated in the west, as opposed to Muslim countries, but without any actual evidence to back up you idea, it becomes just another of you mute points.

Also, I heard women are not able to vote in Saudi Arabia or run in elections?

So how are women in the west treated worse? Do you honestly think a western woman would be happier living in Saudi Arabia, where she is no longer treated equally and told she must give up half of her rights!!? :sad:

You seem to be having trouble answering my questions so I will answer some of them for you:

Women are not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia.

Gay people are treated very poorly in Saudi Arabia- being gay is a criminal offence and is punished severely- known gay people are often flogged, receive substantial prison terms and are sometimes even executed.

Not following the Islamic code is a criminal offence in Saudi Arabia. The law states all citizens must be Muslims. Religious freedom is non-existent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_...n_Saudi_Arabia


It's not looking that good is it?

[quote]Originally posted by Matt10k
I have some questions, I am not sure of:

Womens were allowed to ride camels and horses during Prophets time, and there are many Islamic countries apart from Saudies and Iran which is dominated by shia's and Wahabist which dont make the majority of worlds Muslim population, Sunni makes 90% of woulds muslim population. Is there women who has served the head of state in America and Europe apart from Magrette Thatcher?

Theres no such punishment prescribed by Quran or the most Authentic Hadith of muslim follow is Sahi Bhukari about the sayings of prophet that homosexual should be executed, the only punishment might be pescribed is in the afterlife or they might even be forgiven.

Plus Quran also believes in repentness.

Women and Men are both get the same punishment for committing adultry in Sharia Law, both get stoned, but there was a saying from Prophet who cursed the husband who lied about his wife.

Sahi Bhukari Volume 7, Book 63, Number 261:
Narrated Said bin Jubair:

I said to Ibn 'Umar, "If a man accuses his wife of illegal sexual intercourse (what is the judgment)?" He said, "Allah's Prophet separated the couple of Bani 'Ajlan (when the husband accused his wife for an illegal sexual intercourse). The Prophet said, 'Allah knows that one of you two IS a liar; so will one of you repent?' But they refused. He then again said, 'Allah knows that one of you two is a liar; so will one of you repent?' But they refused, whereupon he separated them by divorce." Aiyub (a sub-narrator) said: 'Amr bin Dinar said to me, "In the narration there is something which I do not see you mentioning, i.e. the husband said, "What about my money (Mahr)?' The Prophet said, "You are not entitled to take back money, for if you told the truth you have already entered upon her (and consummated your marriage with her) and if you are a liar then you are less entitled to take it back.


Women and men both are suggested to dress modestly, Allah first gives a dress code for a man in the quran then for a women, but head covering isn't compulsory bit permissable and this is a sign of respect to women that doesn't look upon as sexual object, Islam calls every women those who they not married as sisters, how much more respect would a women need.

Again I suggest you study the life of prophet Mohammed that non-muslims were required to be treated equally and practise their faith freely when living under a muslim government, and there are many signs in history where people of other faith were treated well under the rules of such as salladin, Mugals, moors, ottomons. And like I said Saudie are whabist, so i dont agree with most of their policy.

brother zakir will give you the answer, same views as min.:thumbs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG00Zw-FvkA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y69bL...eature=related

Every day their a wide range of degradation of women in front covers, top shelf, the allow of mistresses, ponography.

Womens were give rights to vote 14 centuries ago, Women were not give rights to vote here till the late 19ths century, and you keep on bringing Saudie, i told you i dont agree with their policy and it is not the same country as it was before the wahabist took control and distorted the laws of the prophet. One great thing in saudie, i think women will be alot safer from the harrassment, according to statistics saudie has the lowest crime rate in the world.:bigsmile:

Gay people are treated poorly in many european countries, homosexual was illegal in this country just about couple of decades ago.


Womens in islam and their rights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_and_Islam

I can assure you women cannot drive in Saudi Arabia- I’m not sure what half of that long winded reply you gave on that subject meant regarding camels and whatnot- and yes there have been other female heads of state- and we have many female politicians- (at least it is allowed here)

You said women are treated worse in the west? How come they still can’t drive or vote in Saudi Arabia or be part of the electorate?

When you say they must dress modestly, what you actually mean is they MUST be Muslims- as do men. Not being Muslim is a criminal offence- there is no freedom of religion in Saudi Arabia.

Your point that gay people are treated poorly here. Hmm... hardly the same as getting lashed, executed or imprisoned for it, is it?!



Oh great! :joker: sounds like a fantastically civil place to live then! Men and women are stoned to death for adultery. So... Still think women are treated worse in the west?



All you points on ‘used to be illegal in the west’ or ‘women used to not be able to vote’ does nothing for your point that women are NOW treated worse in the west. What is actually the case is that we abolished such archaic laws and Muslim countries DIDN'T meaning it’s those Muslim countries, which are now behind and where people are still oppressed and treated worse- especially women.

So your argument that women in the west are treated worse (if you even have one) is exceptionally weak...

I'm not meaning to turn my argument into an anti-Islam argument, but I need to face this point imparticular.

My friend was born into a Muslim family, and visits the mosque each evening. However, he is gay, and cannot come out to his family because this puts him in danger. Never has he faced trouble from his peers for being who he is, but he cannot let anyone know within the Muslim circle that he is gay. Why is it that Islam looks down so badly at homosexuality?

You cannot bring the 'everywhere has homophobia' argument into it, because as I said he's faced no trouble from his peers.

Is it something in the Qu'ran that teaches this? Or is it just traditional thought?

Such as degradation fo their soles, and honour through wild exposure, every day there is rape taken place in America, now if you implemented the sharia that if a man rapes a women then he will receive death penalty, would the rape increase or decrease? Camels and horses were the transports of that time.

Modesty is a sign of respect, would you



Oh great! :joker: sounds like a fantastically civil place to live then! Men and women are stoned to death for adultery. So... Still think women are treated worse in the west?[/quote]

So do you see that that men and women get equal punishmet? Sounds civil and fair and erases adultry, and marraige break up



Women i west are treated with inferiority and as sexual object. Their condition is much worse, daily a women is getting raped, prostitution is common. According to your perception muslim women are treated badly, but do you know out those of those who accept islam majority and 33% are muslims. In America after 9/11 1.5 million converted muslim, 33% of them are said to be women, if women are treated badly why the rate of converion of islam majority are women?

Yes, IMO they have degrade the women by such things like top shel, lads mag, misstresses.

No, being stoned to death for adultery is anything but civil- I couldn’t give a toss whether or not it is "equal". If I started going around killing men and women ‘equally’ would that make it ok? Your arguments are useless!

“Modesty is a sign of respect”. So what! Women should be able to wear whatever they want and we should respect that.

And lads mags degrading women is the best you can do? The women choose to appear in them- I don’t find them particularly degrading- it’s part and parcel of having a free society- unlike Saudi Arabia, which is anything but free- having to be a Muslim for example- being executed for being gay- not being able to wear what you want.

Sorry, but I know where I’d rather live and I think I speak for a lot of people here too.

You tell a western woman she would be better off not being ‘degraded’ by the west anymore by moving to Saudi Arabia, where she will not be allowed to vote, drive, drink alcohol, wear what she wants, go out when she wants, practice whatever religious beliefs she wants and will be stoned to death if she cheats on her husband and see what she says to you!

I think you'll find it starts with a certain four letter word and ends with 'off' :joker:

[quote]Originally posted by Lauren
I'm not meaning to turn my argument into an anti-Islam argument, but I need to face this point imparticular.

My friend was born into a Muslim family, and visits the mosque each evening. However, he is gay, and cannot come out to his family because this puts him in danger. Never has he faced trouble from his peers for being who he is, but he cannot let anyone know within the Muslim circle that he is gay. Why is it that Islam looks down so badly at homosexuality?


According National Gay and Lesbian Task Force's (NGLTF) national conference in Detroit by Executive Director Matt Foreman.

"Folks, with 70 percent of the people in this country living with HIV being gay or bi (sexual), we cannot deny that HIV is a gay disease," Foreman told his audience. "We have to own that and face up to that."

According to the federal Centers for Disease Control, 70 percent of all cases of HIV occur among men who have sex with other men (MSMs), people who are bisexual (e.g., who have sex with both men and women, or those who inject illegal drugs with infected needles (previously used by MSMs).

If this practise would the spread of disease spread more or spread less. Quran says every sole is reponsible for their own action.


Homosexuality is much discussed in the Quran apart from the people of Lut where a man was being harrassed by another man, and according to that story allah cursed those people, thats about it.

In the same way how Islam looks down on alcohol.

Maybe we should do a survey?

How many of the women here are persuaded enough by Farhads argument, to pack their bags and go to live in a country like Saudi Arabia?!

His reasoning that you should leave is that you are degrading yourself by what you wear- and that you are more likely to be raped.

On the downside however, you must now wear full Muslim clothing, be a Muslim and follow all the Islamic code (whether you believe in it or not)- also, you must not be gay (or you could be killed- at best you will be jailed)- you cannot drink alcohol, you will not be allowed to listen to certain music and you will also not be allowed to drive or vote.

Also, if you have sex before marriage, you will be stoned to death.

Convinced?

This thread has the potential to degenerate and seems to have gone off topic. I would suggest that it be locked for a while at least

It had degenerated from the very moment someone started trying to suggest their religious temple was the centre of the Earth, then spent the next 4 or 5 pages trying to convert everyone to their religion, whilst spouting a constant stream of false information.

At the moment I think it's still on topic, as the title suggests people should convert to Islam and members are discussing the morality of the statement.

However, I would remind members to stay on topic, and respect other faiths when doing so.

It's all well and good saying I should be all PC and respect someone's religion- but the Saudi's believe they are acting in the name of their religion when they kill gay people or not afford women the same rights as men- and stone people to death for having sex before marriage or for adultery.

Why should I have to respect that?

If I said I did respect it, I would be lying.

You don't have to respect the faith, but respect the right to the faith.