Try again. Oh and why are you even talking to me?

This is all so confusing. I will stick by my original argument. If Jesus was that great a deity, he would come down and fill us all with the knowledge of his story and clear this whole mess up.

Still waiting for somebody to refute that...

I am still waiting for a good explanation of the Trinity!!!! 1+1+1=1 ok then????????

WHat would be the point? Life is supposed to be full of ups and downs. If it was obvious to everyone that there is one almighty god, and these are his instructions, everyone would be like zombies. I think there are supposed to be believers, and non believers. It would be too easy otherwise.:blush:

The idea of a God is a delusion. Fact.

I often wonder how many atheists start praying once they're on their deathbeds.

That is a myth. Do you believe in God?

How do you know it's a myth? I'd imagine that there would be quite a few who suddenly start praying to something or someone.

It is amyth because alot of people are brought up Atheist these days. Why would they pray to something they know nothing about?

SOme christian will argue, that if God showed himself,and gave you irrefutable proof, it would not longer be able to say I didnt know. So anything evil you did, would be unforgivable.
It all has to do with us proving ourselves to be able to make up our own mind, with the little unproven guidance we received. WIll you choose right from wrong without the proof that god exists.

See, I believe in god and my religion, but I do not believe that non believers will all go to hell. I think its even more admirable for someone to be good, even though they dont believe in god, and dont think there will be consequences for their actions in the after life. ANd if I can see the logic in that, I dont see how the almighty god, would not see it.

Anyone who questions Christianity goes to hell though, did you not know?

Religion is not forced upon anyone, nor should it ever be. In history, a lot of religions used the word o god, to go to war, and slaughter people. I dont believe any of the prophets, would have condoned that. They went to war, because they were not allowed to have their beliefs, or they were prosecuted for their beliefs, but they didnt go to war to force their religion on others.
BUt then came the monarchs, who used religions, to justiy, their imperialism. Even the church. The key is to know that its wrong, and that there will be people who will abuse a religion. Even big groups of people.

So I dont see the point in questioning religions, when it doesnt affect you in any way. WHat is the point in trying to get people to abandon their religion, if all it does for them is help them be a better person?
If you however think that any religious groups is abusing their powers, or trying to force their religions on to others, then its perfectly OK to question it.

Just crazy how many believe it, it's ridiculous. To be fair I don't mind Deism, Religion is just no!

Good points, but it seems like such a cheap way out, to chalk it all up to free will. What about people in isolated parts of the world who have no knowledge of anything outside there own indigenous culture? Are they going to hell? I know you don't believe in that but isin't that what happens to non believers?

Understand gods infinite love for you or suffer eternal damnation?

I thought the whole point of Jesus was to redeem us and save us from our sins no matter what?

Wait a second...

...I have lost track of myself.

Can you start to see the thousands of interpretations out there? How do you know which one is right?

Dozens of books, dozens of authors, hundreds of edits, dozens of versions, thousands of years, historical and scientific, provable inaccuracies no matter which version.

And this is the basis for some sort of coherent faith?

Sorry, but call me faithless. It's too big a pill to swallow.

Throughout time mankind has always believed in something beyond the physical world- usually a diety of some kind but not always. I think it's in our nature to have faith in something that can't be defined or bottled up and processed.

Why do Humans feel they need something? Why do they feel so blessed that they must have a god?

For the indigenous people, I actually asked a muslim scholar about that. And he told me, that its in the hand of god, and it doesnt say anywhere in the scriptures, that they will go to hell. So I believe those people are held to the standard of good and bad. I dont know what the bible say about it.

As for Jesus saving us for our sin, and what not, I mean I am not christian, but I think thats the point why god doesnt gove you irrefutable proof. If he did, then you wouldnt have Jesus say, I think he said “Father forgive them for they know not what they do…...” something like that. So with irreutable proof, he wouldnt be able to say that.


ANd all those interpretations, thats what human do. They twist things, make the perfect imperfect. Its human nature. And I think the challenge is exactly that, to make sense of all the confusion. I think it would be, for lack of a better word, boring.

I don't really think it's an intellectual problem though.... it's something inside each one of us that can't be defined on that level. It's why tribal people beat drums and dance manically to summon up spirits and the like. But I'm going off topic here, sorry.

It is a shame really.

What's a shame?

That after all these years, Humans still need a God.

We'll always believe in something beyond the natural world. We wouldn't be where we are now without the stability it afforded every civilisation throughout time.

Because life is a mystery and some people want to explore that mystery. Unless of course you believe nothing exploded into everything and a purely scientific, chemical, reality based human brain is capable of even wondering such things. That's every bit as hilarious as the Bible.

People need to understand that there religions and there Bibles are just MAN MADE PATHS to discovering the God complex. The shamans had it right. They predated all the major world religions and nailed it the first time around. Leave religion out of it. Leave judgment out of it. Let it be about love, nature, and the mystical depths of your own human mind.

It says non believers go to hell. Wait, it does not, it says they go to heaven. Wait, it dose not, it says they will go to purgatory. Wait, it dose not, it says Jesus will save them, wait it dose not, it says they are going to hell.

Depends which MAN WRITTEN book you read :conf:.

I'd rather be a Deist!

Humans have always looked for a higher power. Primarily imo because there were so many things around them they coudnt explain.
There are a lot more atheist these days, because humanity thinks they know it all. WHich imo is ridiculous. SCience have time and time again proven itself wrong, and it will always.
Something big is eventually gonna happen that will make people question everything.

I hope something big happens, pretty bored of life at the moment.

Well said.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/findagrave/p...1034366375.jpg


As charismatic as Jesus, yet they all still died.

The whole world needs an entire collective reawakening. We need to realise out beliefs are just that. Beliefs. We need to realise there is a space in between religion and atheism. But we are too wrapped up in our own brain cell sapping culture of artificial food, prescription medication and ****ing trash television. Like you said, we think we are so great that we have overcome all possible spiritual explanations for the universe. Which is a joke. Take nothing for granted. Life is a ride. Enjoy it while you can.

Life means nothing lol millions of people have died before and so will you. No God can change that

So because we die life means nothing? In that case what are you wasting your time for? Isin't there a bottle of pills or a five story building nearby?

No. You want to live. Because like all of us, you want to feel love and you want to, in turn, love. That's what life is all about. A a bunch of chemicals combining over millions of years throughout human evolution cannot form a brain capable of such things.

Chemicals cant feel love. Just because Science cal point and label at things means jack ****. Was an atom an atom before we said it was an atom? What if we told people in the time of Jesus that all matter was comprised of these tiny little building blocks? What if we could somehow see them through microscopes back then? We would be amazed. Why is it any less spiritual or amazing because Science pointed the finger and said ''yo, this is an atom dudes''???

I think I'm an agnostic actually. Athiest somedays but agnostoc others

Just cos life means nothing does not mean I want to kill myself. Just take it as it comes!!!

Chemicals cant feel love. It's ridiculous to think they can. Chemicals cant join a forum and self reflective on the very nature of reality. Chemicals are not consciously aware of there own subjective reality. Chemicals certainly cant make a cheese sandwich and roll a spliff, goddammit. And that's why Richard Dawkins is a moron.

I'm not a fan of his either. Total prat on the Late Late.

You're a fantastic debater you know:dance:

He not only believes against Religion, which is fine, whatever, but he believes ANY attempt whatsoever to even wonder about something spiritual to the world outside the realms of science is akin to mental disease.

Muppet, he is. Anyone who can make the Late Late audience look the better party must be some eejit.

It's all thanks to the power of ~SCIENCE! :blush:

LOL! I cant believe someone would be so narrow minded. ANd the funny thing about people like that is, they thing religious people are narrow minded (some are, fair enough), but a lot less than him.
Anyways, to me, its great to believe in a religion, but if you know its history, you should realise that not all of it is perfect. SOme were interpreted, and given maybe the wrong meanings. So its good to question certain aspects of them. I questions some things in my religion all the time. Because some of the things in it, I simply dont agree with, and some I find wrong. FIrstly, the scriptures (most of them), are opened to interpretations, and certain people took it upon themselves, to give the one and only interpretation. So there is room for them getting it wrong, because they are human, just like me. WHich imo, gives me the right to disagree with certain interpretations.
BUt I will never come out and say, thats rubbish, religion doent exist, god doesnt exist etc...

He's a typical academic who's just too far up his own arse. No room for compromise in his understanding of the world.

As I have said. There may be a God but Religion is man made. Fact.