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-   -   Ricky Gervais satire or prejudice? (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199380)

Kizzy 12-04-2012 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ammi (Post 5075386)
OK, I know this post will get me infracted or banned, but I feel I want to make it anyway. Kizzy, I've only quoted your replies, but would like you to read back through this thread, of course that's your decision. The original OP, the 'theory' of whether satire is an acceptable form of comedy is an interesting one and worthy of a debate. There are many types of comedy and it's very unique to the individual as to what makes them laugh. But I do agree satire is probably the most 'controversial', by it's very nature. Some will obviously see it in bad taste and offensive and others will see it as a platform to raise awareness of the more 'delicate' social areas, in a way that appeals to a large audience. Comedy and Ricky Gervais are popular with many, whether we personally find them so or not, so by doing this, he is in fact raising public awareness, he's prompting people to think and discuss their views on disabled people and how they are portrayed in the media and that is better than people not considering it at all. Too many things, important things, are not thought of at all, and we are all guilty of that, we all have our own 'stuff' to think about and don't always give time to think of others.

I think I may be rambling a bit so I'll get to my point now, which is in fact only my opinion. Many members have offered an opinion on this subject, and I commend you for the thread, however...
..I have not once read what your opinion actually is. Your posts beride everyone else for their opinion and obviously we can't agree with them all but you don't actually say why you object to them, why you think they're not valid or irrelavant
Livia gives you her opinion and her own personal relation with a friend and you dismiss it. Dezzy explains in great length why he feels 'free speech' should not be ignored in this and you pick out a word for correction. In all honesty I think you were simply rude and dismissive to Gypsygoth. These are simply my opinions.
I myself sometimes post a story and leave it for others to discuss, while I give it more thought and reading other peoples opinions helps me form what my own opinions are. Listening to others as well as what your instincts tell you is the best way to balance your view. This is something I don't think you do. There are some very valid points in this thread, from both sides, but none of them are from you. And yet you patronise and beride and make rude and dismissive remarks to anyone who has made the effort to contribute to this thread.
I hope you're not a troll Kizzy, someone who 'pokes' people for a reaction because that would be a shame. You have made many interesting threads and potentially could be a great contributor, but I feel you need to start contributing or leave the thread open for others to debate and stop dismissing them when they do or if you are going to dismiss them, give a reason why. I'm sure you have much to offer and yet, with the many posts you have made, you have offered nothing at all. If you do decide to read through this thread again, please Kizzy, listen to what people have said and whether you agree or oppose their opinion, accept that all points are worthy of respect and don't dismiss them out of hand

Edit: I also meant to say: Imo both 08Marsh and Dezzy have expressed equally valid views. One is more 'emotional' which is something society must take on board and the other is more 'practical' questioning if lines are drawn, it is no longer free speech, we all look at things differently but neither one is 'wrong'. These 'opposing' views are what contribute to a well balanced debate, neither being less important than the other. I have not seen any dismissal of either of these views by the other, only a 'lost in translation' of whether the posts have actually been read, because not bothering to read a response imo, is the greatest insult of all. They have both made good contributions to this thread

Thankyou for your opinion.
Not true, you have chosen to ignore it.
I have not been In any way shape or form rude to anyone.
Good for you...I do too, but if I disagree I am not afraid to say it.

Can you not see how rude it is to accuse someone of being a 'troll?' You may not see my point ....you may not agree with my point... I might 'appear' to you a certain way, that is your issue not mine.
My comments are how I feel, I don't go into chapter and verse, but I feel I manage to get my view on the subject across fine.
Of course they are worthy of respect and I have said so myself many times.
Really?...I have. Many of my comments have been met with condecension.

I can honestly say I have read every post on this thread, and responded how I saw fit. If you do not like my posting style or my views that is your problem not mine.
I do not wish to argue ammi, if you have such a strong opinion then you are under no obligation to post in this thread.
I will reserve any further judgement on this topic untill I have seen the show this evening.
Just to add, I am really upset by this attack ammi, and I really do not think I have done anything to warrant your insults.

Mrluvaluva 12-04-2012 08:04 PM

Channel 4, 10 pm.

Kizzy 12-04-2012 08:06 PM

Hey...Are you after aristas job or summat?...:)

Mrluvaluva 12-04-2012 08:08 PM

Not at all. I just think there are a few people who will not want to miss it. I am sure there will be more discussion after the pilot has aired.

InOne 12-04-2012 08:08 PM

Will you be watching kizzy?

Shaun 12-04-2012 08:08 PM

I posted about the TV show a week ago in the TV section but noone commented :laugh: [/storyofmylife]

Boothy 12-04-2012 09:32 PM

I thought it was good. A lot truer to reality than most people care to believe.

Jesus. 12-04-2012 09:45 PM

Thoughts?

I don't think any of the pre-show hysteria was in any way justified. Gervais' shows are always about interactions.

Shaun 12-04-2012 09:50 PM

Gonna watch it later, but I doubt it'll contain anything near as offensive as the usual hysterics would like me to believe

Marsh. 12-04-2012 09:52 PM

I'd like to sit down and watch it but I think I'll wait until the weekend. I don't really like Gervais so I'm not expecting much as far as my entertainment goes.

Mrluvaluva 12-04-2012 09:54 PM

I had to record it as I was watching Celebrity Juice so will post my thoughts once I have watched it.

Jack_ 12-04-2012 10:09 PM

For a one-off comedy, and for someone who doesn't really bother with many of Gervais' shows (even though I like him), I thought it was quite good.

Not laugh-a-minute in the slightest, but it had its moments. It was more about the underlying message of questioning different stereotypes, all of which I thought were very discrete but pretty clever in how they were used, i.e. the woman assuming that if when she asked the man what kind of films he liked, she'd be able to determine whether he was gay, and of course at the start when Karl Pilkington's character said he 'wasn't interested in being on TV, showing off his life' - cleverly mocking shows that follow certain celebrities around like Peter Andre.

The pre-show criticism was, as other people have said, totally unjustified. Nothing in the show was offensive, it was all about cleverly mocking stereotypes. The ones I picked up on aside from the ones I mentioned were also about how disabled people are perfectly capable of doing such a job, and could show care and compassion, and there were a few little remarks which I can't remember which seemed to take the piss out of how care home life and elderly people are stereotyped.

As I had guessed...not at all offensive, and a massive overreaction by some before the show had even aired. I still stand by my point earlier in this thread that if you don't understand satire, then this show might've been offensive to you, but if you don't, are are intelligent enough to pick up on what was going on, then it wouldn't have been. I'm expecting Kizzy to come in here eating her words, as I had always thought she would have to afterwards...but we'll see.

InOne 12-04-2012 10:47 PM

I thought it was pretty good. Not offensive or even trying to be offensive. God knows why there was all the nonsense before lol

Jesus. 12-04-2012 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ (Post 5072582)
Derek will be the sanest, most honest and most innocently pure character on the show. Gervais' comedy is more about the interactions of people, so it's more likely to be poking fun at people that continually undervalue real life versions of Derek.

Prophets gon' prophesizzle :idc:

Marsh. 12-04-2012 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 5076783)
I'm expecting Kizzy to come in here eating her words, as I had always thought she would have to afterwards...but we'll see.

To be fair to kizzy she never said anything definitive about Ricky Gervais. She opened a debate to ask people's opinion on it and then the thread developed into a conversation about offensive comedy in general.

Me. I Am Salman 13-04-2012 10:56 AM

I thought it was quite interesting and had great acting. Not offensive in the slightest.

Kizzy 13-04-2012 11:29 AM

There was no 'pre show hysteria' and I am not eating my words either.
I did not find it funny, it was touching in parts but thats it. In fact I think he ripped the character off a female comedian who did a sketch of herself as a boy, can't remember what the show was called at all, I just remember she wore glasses that made her eyes look massive and said 'no nana' a lot.
Karl pilkington looked and sounded just like karl pilkington....
It was predictable and boring.

Jack_ 13-04-2012 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5077348)
There was no 'pre show hysteria' and I am not eating my words either.
I did not find it funny, it was touching in parts but thats it. In fact I think he ripped the character off a female comedian who did a sketch of herself as a boy, can't remember what the show was called at all, I just remember she wore glasses that made her eyes look massive and said 'no nana' a lot.
Karl pilkington looked and sounded just like karl pilkington....
It was predictable and boring.

But not prejudiced or offensive. Thought so.

Marsh. 13-04-2012 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 5077449)
But not prejudiced or offensive. Thought so.

Again, you're putting words in people's mouth.

Livia 13-04-2012 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5075069)
I have a friend/cousin/ best mate... classic get out of anything clause...
Ok livia :)

It's not a get-out clause. I do have a friend who is also a colleague. How is that a get-out clause?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5075136)
BLAH BLAH...back tracking, that is exactly what you said livia....How he knew this child has no consequence as to how he chose to portray him....

Blah blah? How rude. What I said is here in black and white.

So anyway... what a lot of fuss over nothing. I watched it, I thought it was handled sensitively and I doubt anyone could have been offended.

Jack_ 13-04-2012 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 08marsh (Post 5077645)
Again, you're putting words in people's mouth.

I don't think I am actually...

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5072593)
Oh like he did with susan boyle you mean?....He was taking the piss.
And he is pushing boundaries yes, as he is getting away with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5072937)
There are lots of comedies that mock stereotypes...But the star is not so openly offensive to individuals in the name of 'comedy'.
That is simply called 'mocking' ...And is a form of bullying.
Nobody should have the right to abuse another and attempt to pass it off as 'entertainment'

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5072966)
Thats not really the point is it?..
In this country we have hate laws, discrimination is not tolerated.
So why then is it acceptable when under the guise of 'humour'?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5072995)
What is the topic of the thread gypsy?
And discriminating against disabled people is now a crime. Susan whilst being a lovely singer is also classed as having a disability.
She is not a 'mong' however anyone attempts to define the term...

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5073039)
He wrote the show.
Is that the issue.. Would you mind being insulted in front of millions of people?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5073090)
No...
I'm sure she was thrilled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5073097)
The disabled..
Not according to him he isn't...have you read the OP?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5073153)
I would rather him not claim it was satirical, and then backtrack and claim that the character is not disabled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5073222)
No...I disagree she highlights his contradictory statements, It shows his 'satire ' argument for what it is....rubbish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5073297)
Quote:
"Derek is a fictional character and is defined by his creator. Me," he says. "If I say I don't mean him to be disabled then that's it.

Then why suggest it is a satirical look at disability?...If he is not in any way disabled?.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5073633)
No, It doesen't work like that.
As with all prejudice its not for the abused to speak out its for the rest of society to say 'that is unacceptable'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5073649)
Why?...If It is being used to ridicule a section of our 'civilised' society then it is wrong.
Do you have any evidence to support this? Who are these 'most' disabled people?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5074364)
Are you suggesting my concern is unjustified?....

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5074372)
The disabled are also classed as vulnerable, I thought you would know that ammi.

Most, if not all of these quotes that I've pulled out seem to be kizzy implying that she thinks Derek will be discriminatory against the disabled. This is of course before the show had even aired.

Nothing to do with putting words into people's mouths.

Jesus. 13-04-2012 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5077348)
There was no 'pre show hysteria' and I am not eating my words either.
I did not find it funny, it was touching in parts but thats it. In fact I think he ripped the character off a female comedian who did a sketch of herself as a boy, can't remember what the show was called at all, I just remember she wore glasses that made her eyes look massive and said 'no nana' a lot.
Karl pilkington looked and sounded just like karl pilkington....
It was predictable and boring.


http://files.myopera.com/AOTEAROAnz/blog/orly.jpg

Kizzy 13-04-2012 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 5077653)
It's not a get-out clause. I do have a friend who is also a colleague. How is that a get-out clause?



Blah blah? How rude. What I said is here in black and white.

So anyway... what a lot of fuss over nothing. I watched it, I thought it was handled sensitively and I doubt anyone could have been offended.

lol you never cease to make me chuckle liv, I am not the only person who had reservations about this 'comedy' ...
It was not as bad as I thought...It was just a really terrible programme is all.

Kizzy 13-04-2012 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ (Post 5077712)

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/24/owl.png

Ammi 13-04-2012 06:48 PM

..I thought it was quite sweet and sensitve..and I'm not really a big fan of him...I liked Ricky's character..although I did voluntary work in an old folk's care home once..and it was nothing like that..they're very very lively...full of beans and up for a laugh
..I didn't think it was really a comedy though

Livia 13-04-2012 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5078059)
lol you never cease to make me chuckle liv, I am not the only person who had reservations about this 'comedy' ...
It was not as bad as I thought...It was just a really terrible programme is all.

Well, I wish I could say the same about you. Kiz.

No, there was a small minority of people who were getting their knickers in a knot by prejudging something.

Kizzy 13-04-2012 06:53 PM

jack
Most, if not all of these quotes that I've pulled out seem to be kizzy implying that she thinks Derek will be discriminatory against the disabled. This is of course before the show had even aired.

Nothing to do with putting words into people's mouths.


I did worry it might show the character 'derek' in a poor light giving a negative image of the disabled.
Why do you have such a problem with my opinion jack?
I was not the only person to find the concept of this show off putting ...
http://www.metro.co.uk/tv/896116-ric...r-reservations

Kizzy 13-04-2012 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 5078093)
Well, I wish I could say the same about you. Kiz.

No, there was a small minority of people who were getting their knickers in a knot by prejudging something.

I offered a topic for debate livia...you should know how it works...I give my view, you give yours?
My knickers remain unknotted :)

Kizzy 13-04-2012 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ammi (Post 5078076)
..I thought it was quite sweet and sensitve..and I'm not really a big fan of him...I liked Ricky's character..although I did voluntary work in an old folk's care home once..and it was nothing like that..they're very very lively...full of beans and up for a laugh
..I didn't think it was really a comedy though

Neither did I tbh, It seemed more like an Alan Benett play than a comedy.The reference to old people and the picture being put in the bin as rubbish was subtle.
However his insistance that derek is not disabled is interesting, he clearly has complex social issues. To just suggest he is simply nice but dim is not recognising the need for awareness of mental health issues...But whatever, I don't want to stir another hornets nest do I?
http://www.metro.co.uk/tv/895410-ric...ot-that-bright

thesheriff443 13-04-2012 07:41 PM

kizzy did you not burn your knickers when you burnt you bra.lol
i would love yo see kizzy,liva and ammi in an old peoples home with knitting needles at the ready,lol

Kizzy 13-04-2012 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesheriff443 (Post 5078205)
kizzy did you not burn your knickers when you burnt you bra.lol
i would love yo see kizzy,liva and ammi in an old peoples home with knitting needles at the ready,lol

Shaddap you! ;)

Livia 13-04-2012 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5078113)
I offered a topic for debate livia...you should know how it works...I give my view, you give yours?
My knickers remain unknotted :)

I am always amused when people assume I'm stupid... so I guess I should amend my last post to... you sometimes make me chuckle, but not for the reason you think.

Kizzy 13-04-2012 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 5078297)
I am always amused when people assume I'm stupid... so I guess I should amend my last post to... you sometimes make me chuckle, but not for the reason you think.

Not sure how you arrived at that livia...You are far from stupid, never doubt yourself:nono:
Most people on here crack me up all the time too, I'm glad I make you so happy :elephant:

Livia 13-04-2012 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5078312)
Not sure how you arrived at that livia...You are far from stupid, never doubt yourself:nono:
Most people on here crack me up all the time too, I'm glad I make you so happy :elephant:

I don't doubt myself Kizzy. Not ever. Perhaps you think you're being very subtle with your little jibes, but you aren't. I said you make me chuckle but not for the reason that you think. I never said you made me happy. Lots of people on here make me happy, but you are not one of them. Once again, even though my post was perfectly clear, you've misread it.

Kizzy 13-04-2012 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 5078324)
I don't doubt myself Kizzy. Not ever. Perhaps you think you're being very subtle with your little jibes, but you aren't. I said you make me chuckle but not for the reason that you think. I never said you made me happy. Lots of people on here make me happy, but you are not one of them. Once again, even though my post was perfectly clear, you've misread it.

How rude! Don't read into my comments things that are not there...
please stop with the personal remarks livia...If you have nothing to say on the topic in discussion don't comment I have no wish to hear what yours or anyone elses opinion of me is...
I hope I'm making myself clear.

Mrluvaluva 13-04-2012 10:16 PM

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_3L1GT2Lecg...eryDareYou.jpg

Livia 13-04-2012 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kizzy (Post 5078350)
How rude! Don't read into my comments things that are not there...
please stop with the personal remarks livia...If you have nothing to say on the topic in discussion don't comment I have no wish to hear what yours or anyone elses opinion of me is...
I hope I'm making myself clear.

Let's see if you can understand this: stop with the snide remarks and the provocation and just try to leave me alone. I in turn will do you the same courtesy.

waterhog 13-04-2012 10:29 PM

so bored of this guy - will not be watching -

Ammi 13-04-2012 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WATERHOG (Post 5078514)
so bored of this guy - will not be watching -

..that's ok Joe..it's already been on LOL

Crimson Dynamo 10-03-2014 12:57 PM

Derek was funny, I just wish Life's too Short was funnier but watching it back its quite funny


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