...no? Because the industry professionals who decide the nominations for the BRITS will obviously have varying opinions and the point that Lily is making a case for is that the entire genre is being overlooked regardless of quality, there's nothing personal about that whatsoever

I should've known

Perhaps they're being overlooked because they're ****.

Or perhaps they're not and, as Lily says, there's a certain type of voter for these award ceremonies that are so directly focused on the specific channel of mainstream target audience that they aim after that they're scared to stray from that? It's no secret that awards show voters don't represent a particularly wide array of genres (be it in music, films, etc), hence the demand to release the BRITS demographics

(I'm glad you went a post without reminding me that you dislike me by the way, that'll knock a few off your word count)

If they thought grime music was as **** as you've told us multiple times that you think it is, I doubt they'd have given the genre a whole slot at last year's ceremony... almost as if that's a consolation prize for the fact that they know they're on a dangerous path if they dare to recognise it critically

As I've said earlier on in the thread, hardcore Grime will never make any of these mainstream awards ceremonies because you have to be Pop to make these lists, no matter how good the Grime song is or isn't.

Plus I know it's gonna annoy some people, but a lot of Grime Singers are black and they are gonna be more overlooked than a bunch of White Model types singing Pop songs.

A point illustrated beautifully by 1989 winning "best album" over To Pimp a Butterfly at the Grammys

(not to shade 1989, but come on...)

(that example being more of a hip-hop one, but we're on the topic of diversity and if the glove fits)

Don't shade the audio bible 1989 love yourself MB

Kendrick Lamar would never associate himself with something like Bad Blood

No wait hang on

You like it and I don't. The BRIT judges agree with me more than you apparently. Maybe they will be more successful elsewhere.

'Handy that music's subjective then, isn't it'

I never said I liked it, I'm just trying to see things from both sides of the argument

Do I sense Taylor shade :suspect:

P.s. Amy, you seemingly thinking that they wouldn't be deserving of an award simply because you're not a fan proves my point entirely :thumbs: Night

Drag MB to the pits!

In my opinion they don't deserve one no, again why am I not allowed an opinion?

If others did/do then that is fine but I don't.

You're not even really making a point that hasn't already been made without sarcastic undertones either so why you're bothering over it baffles me haha

Let grime live!

I could certainly say the same for you so any attempt from any of us to get the moral high ground in a debate about Lily Allen is in vain

Nobody ever said you weren't allowed an opinion, but what Lily said (i.e. what this thread's supposed to be about) is a highly valid point about - a lack of acknowledgment for - diversity in the music industry and for you to just dismiss it as '**** music' and nothing more smacks of ignorance to me

And if you're taking issue with me being sarcastic then I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree, since I can't name a single occasion in which I haven't been - feel free to put me on ignore and move on on that one :)

keep lying

Can you stop manipulating what I say to try and gain some sort of moral high ground?

I didn't say all grime music was **** just the ones Lily Allen mentioned, as you said I am entitled to think so :hee:

I was just thinking exactly the same thing :joker:

I'm bored, but not bored enough to read 7 pages about Lily Allen throwing shade at a leaf or whatever it is idk :idc:

Let's end this now

Grime is trash and that's pretty much it

But also Lily Allen is on point and James Bay has no talent and deserves to be criticised

And that's all we need to know for this to move on

But what about diversity? where is your diversity Jonathan?

I did just say a minute ago that it's pointless for anyone of us to even claim we're trying to take the moral high ground but ok :laugh: From what you posted, I didn't see any suggestion that you listened to other grime artists but I didn't see any sort of suggestion that you hadn't made your mind up on the genre as a whole from that - since Lily specifically named Skepta and Stormzy, I think it'd be an easy mistake to make to assume you'd take those particular artists as representative of the genre (since, well, they kinda are)

For somebody who doesn't like my sarcastic tone you've got quite the strong one yourself

**** off Jonathan

7 more pages of debate coming up now

Skepta slays your faves tho

Lethal Bizzle > Stormzy tho

If you want to talk about manipulation of words... the whole argument from Lily's perspective is about diversity in terms of race and she strongly associates that with the grime movement. We all know from hearing the slightest bit of news about the topic that a lack of diversity in the awards industry is prevalent at the minute so, as I said, to ignore that and joke about it seems a bit ignorant to me?

(I can debate my socks off all night, don't worry bout me)

I like Beyoncé and Whitney and stuff

Idk the ins and outs of it but there's more to Black music than grime and the BRITs has always been sort of Pro-White

No you **** off Drew

I like political Lily, come back political Lily! :fist:

Also I told you both to end this now and you just ignored me

Sorry broski

Stop being ungodly messes.

I said grime was trash but I haven't actually listened to any so

MOBOs celebrate grime tho?

This isn't meet the members?

By giving their major awards to the likes of Sam Smith and Ed Sheeran