Well there is if you're interested in such things. Again, I'm not talking about making excuses for anyone so the outrage is misplaced.

I'm interested in the childhood psychology of serial killers but it doesn't mean I want them released :shrug:.

You are free to think that i would act differently, but to be honest i wouldnt..

I wouldnt go round pointing fingers with no proof as i know how much that can go horribly wrong with innocent people being killed due to one mans word.


And i would probably invited to 2 women indoors to discuss what to do going forward....believe it if you want..or not...:shrug:

people always seem to want to blame anyone but the criminal,I just don't get it and no good slapping these people on the wrist this is why we are so fcuked up now,human rights abused and used to commit crimes and plead their human right.

They, they, they......


Now that sounds like you have just lumped all travellers in the scumbag box without even bothering to find out about individuals...which is my point exactly.


These 2 women are being judged on a dead scumbags actions and i find that a bit off tbh.

Plenty of travelers don't do those things, they're not a problem and they're a separate "they".

..just touching on this thing Parmy said earlier in the thread...about ‘internet trolls latching on etc..’...?...I read a news report this morning...which said that some who are taking the flowers down aren’t residents or anyone associated with the older couple involved...they are people who have just read the media stories and have become ‘enraged’...so they have acted on that..that’s not really concern for the residents either, I wouldn’t say...

Let's be real, animals children and the old are treated the worst in this so called civilised world.

.. my balance of personal ‘travelling community’ stories anyway...things I’ve personally experienced..is that yeah, some pretty negative ones with no care or regard to the community etc... it some great ones as well...some great, caring traveller parents who have helped create great associations and interactions with the residents...who have themselves initiated that and been very involved with other parents and children in caring for the community together...is what I’ve also experienced with some travellers...some great people with some great values...

Alot of comments on this thread would not be tolerated for other groups, there are good and bad everywhere.

But TS, you are making excuses. You say that you can see shades of grey, well, you#'re not the only one. We're all pretty intelligent on here. Maybe you've been fortunate not to have encountered the downside of the traveller community, but I have and so have others. And every time a scumbag does something appalling there are people on the forum ready to tell everyone they're wrong and we should see the bigger picture.

If there was a positive story about travellers anywhere, I'd be glad to compare note.

All this not caring about the community etc...

You just have to look at all the garbage strewn up and down the countries roads..or the dog **** you have to dodge to get your morning paper....

Feet high front lawns, broken down viehicles outside folks front doors..etc etc.....

I dont think travellers are to blame for it all.

To be fair, Cherie, not a lot of other groups get away with what the travellers get away with. They are a law unto themselves.

Which other groups have gotten themselves a reputation for doing the things which make people complain about the travelers?

I don't really agree that travellers as a group are relevant to this thread or in the stereotypes for them but then I don't live in a community that has had problems from them as a group and this can weight peoples opinion considerably. I don't really blame anyone for that either.

However I do think this particular family are being deliberately provocative. This is more about making a vengeful statement than genuine grieving in my opinion.

Jesus christ..pop into any housing estate and you will see all the **** left lying about by people of all nationalities, races or whatever todays box is.

I do agree they do seem to get away with far more than is the norm, I guess that is down to the fact that they can uproot and at time and are generally of no fixed abode, so quite difficult to convict, I don't know

You have changed your tune since yesterday. Yes there is a lot to complain about, like there is a lot of to complain about in any group of people, but tarring everyone of them with same brush would not be tolerated in any other group.

I'm inclined to believe this as well tbf

Well my point was to do with a particular activity that is practised by travellers and besides being dangerous is terrible animal cruelty. It is off-topic though so I won't say anymore on it

It's not excuses though, there are no excuses for burgling houses and terrorising people, and no one is trying to do that. No one is trying g to say that there are valid reasons for those actions. I'm not even saying the resident shouldn't have stabbed him; he was right to take whatever action necessary when him and his family were threatened in their home. The burglar (knowingly, unless he was very stupid) risked his life with his criminal activity and paid the price.

The "shades of grey"... And where the aftermath becomes complicated... Lie in the fact that just because he was clearly not a good or moral person, doesn't necessarily mean that he didn't love or wasn't loved by his family and friends. People are extremely complex and, barring complete sociopaths (which are very rare), the "scummiest" people have more than one aspect to who they are. People who do awful things don't go home and sit around cackling and coming up with evil schemes like supervillains all day... That is the hard to swallow reality.

The effort to understand, not excuse, is actually hugely rewarding... It's fine if you have no interest in doing so but I really can't comprehend why you would want to stop anyone else from doing it.

If the process of "understanding" involves explaining their behaviour for reasons not within their own control then it is making excuses for them

Who is doing that, though? You're assuming that understanding behaviour is the same thing as removing personal responsibility for that behaviour... It's not.

Quite a ridiculous case from what I've read so I'm glad he faced no charges for it, it seems a million miles away from that case with the farmer killing the intruders as they ran away.

The 78 year old and his ill wife have moved out
under Police advice.
The Evil Criminal who is Dead
has his family and criminal mates keep putting up flowers.

https://news.sky.com/story/memorial-...-time-11326523
So far pulled down the Flowers 4 times

https://e3.365dm.com/18/04/750x563/s...20180409161623
[The Met Police has released this image of Hither Green suspect Billy Jeeves]

The Scumbag Criminal Driver has that is still free

People put flowers up at side of the road where people have been killed some from speeding or drunk driving.

Leave them up, be old news next month.

No a local will not stand for it.
https://e3.365dm.com/18/04/536x302/s...20180411151936

Then make him sit

What I will address;

Apparently there's some confusion with thinking that I'm using the word "understanding" synonymously with "compassion". Which just is not the case. I'm not generally all that compassionate, and that's in no way what I was even talking about :shrug:

Bluntly as I can put it; I don't care that this guy is dead. Literally... at all. It gets a big "meh" - he invaded someone's home and he got stabbed. It seems pretty inevitable. I also don't really care that his family are upset about it. I don't know them... it's not exactly on my radar. When I say I like trying to "understand" these things it's not some bleeding heart acceptance thing... it's because I find attempting to understand human and social psychology interesting and rewarding, in the sense that it's fascinating.

I'm sure that'll just piss you off more because, for whatever reason, you think you need to "knock me down a peg" and tell me that "I'm not all that clever" like it's some sort of weird personal mission. Luckily, along with this fellow's death, I don't particularly care about your assessments of how smart I am or am not either :shrug:.

That is different though, the driver of a car who hits someone doesn't live on the road side. These people are going to the victims home and sticking flowers up.

But it's flowers they are leaving not bombs.

Do we know if he was stabbed with his own screw driver or was it a knife from the kitchen.

He was stabbed with the screwdriver the criminal brought with him,the old guy was protecting his disabled wife,that criminal would have used it against him,wonder what people sticking up for this wanker would say then.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

I once watched a couple of different documentaries on this Niamh and for supposed 'horse-lovers' the cruelty and lack of care about the horses were glaring.

Flowers left for innocent victims at the scene of an accident is a light-year away from flowers left for a perpetrator at his VICTIMS home.

And in the former, there can be NO doubt that the 'motive' behind leaving the flowers is Love, Sympathy and Remembrance, while, in the case of the latter, the motive behind leaving flowers is highly DUBIOUS.

I would say, why didnt he?

But im not one of those people.

If you mean; Why didn't the burglar USE the screwdriver on the 'old man' - HE DID. He held it to his throat but the 'old man' obviously surprised bully boy and won the grapple which ensued.

Dogs too sadly :(

Hi A.J.

Yes, I forgot about the way dogs are treated. THAT was addressed in one of the documentaries too.