"You did state that saying that culture can affect behavior sounds racist.. "
nah making it the single factor as you try to do sounds racist.
"culture can affect behaviour" doesn't NOT equal " immigrant culture is the MAIN reason for higher rates of crime among black or asian youth".
That culture affects behaviour is obvious ( that's the definition of culture ie the different ways that groups of people do similar things). Your taking that and saying “well then THAT's why that asian guy robbed that old man” or “THAT's why that muslim kid half my age beat me up last Tuesday”. Funnily enough when an Anglo kid robs an old man you probably don't attribute THAT to the criminals culture though do you?

Ange: "If some extremist Imams can fool a group of brumy ( spelling?) asian boys who had never even seen a quran in their lives to blow up innocent people in buses and trains then what does that say about UK society?"

Wom: "Just maybe that says more about the boys and their home and cultural influences than it does about UK society!"

yeah maybe…but not knowing their details I'd never dare judge and have a say on that....but on the other hand UK society does have elements who are racist, no doubt, so I can have a say about that.
… what it does say is racism helps extremist find recruits among Muslim kids. If these kids weren't marginalised at every turn but were accepted and respected (and not just "tolerated") then when extremist come knocking they'd be told "nah I'm not buying that the UK hate us... p*ss off". You think this doesn't happen? Remember the Islam4UK. What do you think that was about? It was designed to get them more publicity but more importantly more recruits. They wanted to turn moderate muslims into extremist by inflaming racial hate against muslims. They made NO plans to get the march happening like setting a date or asking for permission form local governments. It was all design to get their heads on TV and up the racism against moderate muslims. Pissing off racists and rednecks means more abuse for moderate everyday muslims which would push them towards those extremists movements. Kind of the same thing rednecks do on Tibb really. When some like Inone says "Islam is the plague on the UK" this plays straight into Islam4UK hands because it means more moderates feeling like that don't belong in the UK. A statement like that would get a thumbs up from Choudary.

Wom:"Seems you blame everyone - but the individuals that actually commit the crimes. You blame government, government policies, residents of the UK, UK culture"

I've never said this nor EVEN typed the word “government”. I've said the problem of higher crime rates among some asian and black youth had many contributing factors one of which was racism... something you repeatedly denied. If simply seeing that factors that contribute to the issue are many and varied and then taking the time to point them all out means that I'm a "bleeding-heart" in your eye's ...fine.
" residents of the UK, UK culture". You seem to think you speak for the majority but sorry bro...you're not ... since you don't even believe in basic britsh principles of equity and respect. Your in the minority bro and you hate it :P

It doesn't exist? Mate it exist whether you like it or not, it's currently British policy. Britain is a multicultural nation no matter how deep under the covers you choose to hide. Multiculturalism is about lessening social friction. It's about encouraging immigrants to keep their identity, history and cultural and to share that with the rest of society. Obviously your perfect in every way so you don't need to learn anything from other's , especially those from other cultures but luckily your in the minority their.... so oops...sux to be you.. The "government" ( lol the way you write it sounds like it's some evil organization) is voted in by THE PEOPLE …. and that's who want multiculturalism. If parties thought there were votes in halting multiculturalism then they would have made it one of their policies in the hope of either getting or staying elected. Note how that HASN'T happened. I suggest you join the BNP or the english defence league ie ( BNP lite) who at their last march all shouted "WE HATE MUSLIMS".
So if you hate multiculturalism than what policy would YOU prefer? Should all immigrants assimilate and deny all their cultural, their history, their identity and spend their remaining years in the UK living a lie? Or do you agree with Arista's solution that immigrants should be electronically tagged and monitored to make sure they don't get up mischief. ( lol what a wingnut!) Maybe your solution is to send them all "back to where they came from"? Well...which is it mate? According to you the government has everyone fooled except for you (omg lol) so what's the alternative?

The alternative is a society where immigrants assimilate, and adapt to the UK culture, hopefully enriching it and being enriched by ours. Since this is an English speaking nation, learning the language should be a priority since it facilitates integration, sharing of ideas and concepts. Sharing a common language is the single most unifying factor since it enables us to communicate.

Embracing and understanding their cultures is what immigrants ask us to do, so surely it is not unreasonable to request them to have the courtesy to embrace ours, and to request that they respect our religions, heritage and history, as we are now required by law to do of theirs. There is no requirement I am aware of for any immigrant to deny their own culture, customs or language unless they are in contravention of the laws of the UK.

Over the centuries England has welcomed immigrants from all over the world, and our rich cultural heritage is a testament to the input of many other cultures. What I find difficult to understand is why multiculturalism has been interpreted by some to mean living as separate communities within society. That is what causes divisions, misunderstandings and suspicions.

Think you missed the point I was making, let me explain it in little words and easy phrases then maybe you can get your tiny mind round it.

The government (incidentally elected by what % of eligible voters?) have this refreshing policy of bringing in new legislation to meet anything their advisors believe has raised public concern, instead of dealing with the concern using current legislation already available. Recent anti terror laws and incitement to cause terrorism, amongst others springs immediately to mind.

As for me hating muslims, where did you draw that conclusion from? I just love your unnecessary and verbose replies, please continue.

Seems some idiots on here don't know the difference between race and religion. Muslims don't class themselves as a race so why do you class them as one?

mahahaha
awww "idiots" .... losing your cool their bro hehe. Don't worry ... I won't report in fear of missing out on this fun.
Seems some fair minded gentlemen who disagree with me think that they aren't racist trash because "technically" they define their hate as religious and not racial.... therefore they contend it's actually islamophobia instead of racism. lol I stand corrected but the BNP and the KKK would welcome you either way... so bro it's kind of a mute point but well done anyway

So wait???????????? You still didn't answer anything lol

"let me explain it in little words and easy phrases then maybe you can get your tiny mind round it."
oooh yeas pleaze...I can haz lernz from you? What does verbose mean? :P ... oh you mean like you using the word verbose?

"The government (incidentally elected by what % of eligible voters?"
point?...democracy relies on people feeling connected and "in the loop". The fact that in the UK that isn't the case doesn't mean the current elected government has no mandate. They do champ and neither party think tearing down the policy of multiculturalism has any widestream backing among the electorate. ( not sure of other parties...you'll need to tell me what the BNP's policy on multiculturalism is :P ) If they did think a move like that would have a majority backing ( and they were extremely cynical) then one of the major parties would have done so. This is me REPEATING myself to you. ( zzzz) You can't claim that the majority of uk public want to chuck this policy based on some **** viewer mobile phone polls. We haz a democracy not a reich :P

That the government flip flops to buy votes isn't news to anyone... that was your main point but ... no **** sherlock. I focused on your anti multiculturalism stance and the strange conspiracy theorist attitude you have to "the government"...( oooo scary!!).
Answer the quest a ask you in my last post. Multiculturalism creates problem?... what problem do you think it creates and what alternative would you like to see? Is there even a problem or is this a beat up? Please speak really slow for me cuz youz iz soooo brainy.

Your a racist, fear monger with wayyy too much time on your hands ... 13000 post in 5 months...bro?. It's 5:30 am over there and you need some zzz ( 4.49pm here.... ooo nearly time to go home from my JOB!!!)
:P
pleasure as always

Agree with that accept these lines...
"There is no requirement I am aware of for any immigrant to deny their own culture" ... correct... under current multicultural policies .... but under forced integration that isn't so true.
"multiculturalism has been interpreted by some to mean living as separate communities within society."
That immigrants become ghettoizing isn't the fault of multiculturalism. It happens when immigrants feel more safe living among them selves rather than more broadly through out a city. There are also economic consideration... newer arrivals to a city aren't going to have their pick of areas to live. This isn't anyones definition of "multiculturalism". There are streets in Sydney where you'd think you were in Hong Kong or Rome... they are wonderful. But 20 years ago when immigrant from asia and Europe were being hammered these areas were ghettoize and not pretty. Today now that those immigrant have been accept and are now an important part of Sydney culture those street are seen as "cosmopolitan" etc. Racism, intolerance, stupidity and fear are the problem.... not multiculturalism.
"Embracing and understanding their cultures is what immigrants ask us to do, so surely it is not unreasonable to request them to have the courtesy to embrace ours"
This is tricky here because I'm wondering if your talking assimilation or do you mean that some immigrants don't embrace the UK. What aspects of UK culture do you feel that immigrants aren't embracing but ought to. And is it a minority? eg extremist Imams hehe. ... but that isn't the case on the whole is it?

There have always been areas in the UK that are to some extent "ghettoised" for the reasons you give, i.e. that it is natural for immigrants of an ethnic group to gravitate towards each other since they share predominantly a common language. This often happens when English people live and work abroad, forming their own ex pat community and seldom venturing outside it.
For example, I have cousins who have lived in Spain for over five years who don't speak a word of Spanish, and whose days revolve around mixing with the tight knit ex pat community in Almeria where they live. Because they do not speak the language, this hinders communication and integration with the Spanish community in which they live. When one of them was ill at Christmas they had to hire an interpreter to go to the hospital with them! They live in a country in which they feel separate and uninvolved with their local community because they have no means of communicating.

I maintain that the single most unifying factor in any society is to speak a common language because it facilitates communication, understanding and sharing of ideas. Therefore, I think the learning of English (certainy enough to get by with) is an important tool for all immigrants and more should be done to give them access to learning it. A basic understanding of English will enable immigrants to feel more in control and not dependent on interpreters, it will facilitate interaction with others outside their ethnic group, and promote mutual respect between people. As regards your comment about racism, intolerance and stupidity, I would point out that it is not a one way street - there is often inter-racial and inter-religious intolerance and again I emphasise that the fault often lies with the inability to communicate with each other. Without learning English how else would you suggest we communicate?

As regards the lack of housing which forces many immigrants into certain less salubrious areas of the country, this is not an experience unique to new arrivals from abroad. There is now a sharper divide than ever between the haves and have nots, and there are many areas of the UK that are economically out of reach of not only immigrants but vast numbers of the indigenous population. Not all English people live in nice houses in nice areas.

My main criticism of multiculturalism is not the presence of immigrants in the UK but the government's lack of foresight and planning in the provision of sufficient housing, schools, hospitals, doctors etc, in other words the infrastructure of society has not exponentially expanded to accommodate the numbers. The ongoing scramble for a share of the limited and often inadequate resources that are available is what causes the resentment, and feelings of marginalisation and unfairness, and I'm talking between ALL communities.

"Something happens to a small number of them while in the UK" - just sounds like more excuses to me? More likely has something to do with home environment and culture!

[QUOTE=ange7;2954336. I focused on your anti multiculturalism stance and the strange conspiracy theorist attitude you have to "the government"...( oooo scary!!).
Answer the quest a ask you in my last post. Multiculturalism creates problem?... what problem do you think it creates and what alternative would you like to see? Is there even a problem or is this a beat up? Please speak really slow for me cuz youz iz soooo brainy.[/QUOTE]

Multiculteralism can create problems whether perceived or real. A lot of it is down to trust or lack of it and tolerance. You will notice from the post you took umbrage at, I didnt say multiculteralism doesnt exist couldnt exist or shouldnt exist, I simply said "Its trying to get us all to buy into the multicultural Britain they would so dearly love us to believe exists." If the government put as much money into breaking down the barriers that do exist as they put into spin telling us these barriers dont exist, then we would be well on the way to a harmonious multicultural society we could be proud of.


What would I like to see, people educated to accept that their way isnt necessarily the only correct way and that accepting other cultures can benefit everyone.

Still waiting to see something to show why I hate Muslims or is that all you can do, throw in invalid points to inflame arguements? Is that what you get off on?

New Labour Multiculteralism has created problems.


They will soon be kicked Out Of Power.
Then this Nation can get it's own values back.

what nation, England?

Well...yes. You cant blame everything on the past/racism. If it turned out that whites caused more crime, what excuse would you use then? Oh yes, none...it wouldnt matter then would it?

Plus, if we are so horribly racist...why move here in the first place? and am speaking only of those who werent born here...obviously.

Exactly! If the UK is so racist and treats immigrants so dreadfully it does beg the question why so many are beating a path to our borders often across several continents and countries, and often at risk to life and limb?

Our open and accepting people, freedom of speech and to practice the religion of your choice, but most of all our generous benefits system that pays things like Child Benefit and Working Tax/Child Tax credits even if your children are resident in a different EU country.

haha...what to go on the dole and sponge of us?? or perhaps because they live in terrible places where they face mortal danger on a daily basis or they cant get work to feed their families!...you, me all of us would be doing exactly the same as them in their position, we were just born lucky! If you had more knowledge and understanding of immigrants/asylum seekers you wouldnt be saying these things, I guarantee...and theres never any mention of the overwhelming contribution to society, they do the jobs Brits wont get out of bed for, The NHS for one would collapse without them..http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20.../18/nhs60.nhs2 .not to mention the contribution to the arts, culture, music...

So why travel across numerous safe countries where they could have easily and safely settled in one of the first safe countries they encountered then?

Local economists up here reckon the influx of migrant workers/immigrants has one major effect, keeping the average standard of living down, by their willingness to work for extremely low wages. Consequently some local employers tend to hire them as opposed to local workers.

The NHS collapsing as your example isnt a particualr good one, if unneccesary adminstrative, middle and higher management posts were thinned out, wages equivalent to that earned in the private sector would be more in parity and the recruitment and retention rates in the NHS would be greatly improved.

which specific countries do you mean. i dont think you mean any European ones?

Im talking abour asylum seekers, most migrant workers from europe come here to work...and do work

Bollocks, thats the tory answer to everything, thin out middle management etc, it wouldnt answer any problems...and most local workers would rather sponge off the state than do the jobs most migrant workers do, theres very little evidence of people losing out on work because of migrant workers. What are you suggesting Shasown, asylum seekers come here to sponge off the state?