Originally Posted by tonyface (Post 4922609)

I think he was struggling to understand why she was so adored, versus the Denise that he had to put up with in the house, and got angry.....

Originally Posted by WozMan (Post 4922607)

To me the whole Denise Michael thing started when she failed to respect his obvious habit of spending some alone time in the bedroom. Even then if she had just spoken to him respectfully and not badgered and harangued him with the same question over and over it would have been ok. She harrassed him about what he was doing in the diary room when it was obvious to me it was something he did NOT want to discuss with the housemates. The guy just wanted to be alone for a while and she could not comprehend this fact. To be honest she reminded me of Tashie: extremely needy and a bit of a mess

The incident at the final interview was rude in my opinion. Chatting over an interview on television would get you fired if not blacklisted as a production worker. However Denise was the one who trampled over Michael's boundries in the house first and he was continuing the dynamic which had been established between them.

On the circular argument in this thread:
Something I have come to realise is that personal rules of conduct vary greatly from family to family, culture to culture, group to group. What is outright rude to one group is acceptable and hilarious to another. It seems Michael's behaviour breaks Jack and Wayne's personal rules but not Pyramid's

Originally Posted by mh272 (Post 4916763)

Not. Denise started again and he defended himself

Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 4922661)

Correct and the very reason for that, is precisely what you mentioned yourself which I have highlighted in red. She showed absolutely no respect for Michael - from early days in the house - therefore she shouldn't start moaning and 'effing off' when he treats her the way she felt it appropriate to treat him for weeks.

Originally Posted by Angus (Post 4922627)

There's a lot of us struggling with that one:idc:

Originally Posted by Incensed (Post 4921948)

Err, yeah ok. Snoring is a very intelligent form of communication!

But then if we are to believe your thoughts on the matter, without Michael being in the house there would have been no footage of Denise to be shown on the show :joker:

Originally Posted by Jules2 (Post 4922864)

I dont think he even looked angry tbh, I have had a look at the clip over and over again. He was bored but Denise kept on looking over, there was quite a bit of commotion going on. She had the chair but did that give her the right to down Michael? Not one of the others came out really being viscious as she was, they had respect for themselves but Denise wanted to deflect the blame for all things onto him. The same as she says we are not worried about the story breaking, we are concentrating on Tim's birthday party? Mmmm so because it was his birthday does that mean she shouldnt take responsibility for her actions? Has she hypnotised him and a lot of the public?

Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 4921026)

What? That never happened at all.

The interview was running smoothly, no comments about Michael had been made by Denise. Emma was then about to ask some questions about Michael, when in the audience it became apparent that Michael himself was pretending to snore - which is out and out rudeness. Denise called him up on it, saying it was 'bad sportsmanship', which it is, he continued, shouted a bit - and so Denise quite rightfully told him to '**** off'. That is how it happened - Michael started it all.

It is not an opinion. It was rudeness from Michael, and that's the bottom line of it.

Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 4921056)

No it is not valid. This is a case of fact, not opinion. It wasn't humorous in the slightest, well, maybe in an this-is-awkward-tv-but-it's-amusing kind of way, but when you take that aspect out of it and look at it seriously and maturely - Michael was rude and bad mannered. As I have said previously in this thread or another, if you pretended to snore in a classroom/lecture/meeting, you would be shown the door, as everybody knows how bad mannered and rude it is. How anybody could attempt to try and dispute that is just beyond me...because quite clearly you can't.

So let me get this straight, someone is quite blatantly baiting her, being rude and bad mannered and quite unfair, and she is supposed to just sit there and take it? How ridiculous. If she didn't tell him how rude he was being, no one else would have done...and someone had to do it. If someone is being rude, you call them up on it, and you are quite within your rights to be rude back to them. Ignoring them just allows them to bait you even more.

Originally Posted by rusticgal (Post 4921077)

Dont know what he said or did but he and the twins were giggling like children.... So good on Denise for telling him he was rude and telling him where to go.

....of course the 'classy' twins sat there chewing gum with their mouths open...

Guess no surprise then that Michaels making wild accusations in the sunday papers...sore loser and Denise made him look the prize fool that he is...

Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 4922327)

...but that's brilliant TV. Because as a result, everyone starts debating whether she fancies him, who's in the right, who's in the wrong etc. It's all part of the fun. The real problem is when people let whichever side they take in a certain argument dictate which housemates they are going to like, that's just foolish. For example, during the Denise/twins saga, I was on the twins side, as I'm of the belief that you do not pull someone's trousers down. However, if it weren't for Denise, the best argument of the series would not have occurred, and as such, there would not have been so many discussions about it. Therefore I don't let the fact that I sided with the twins on this particular issue make me dislike Denise, or want her to be evicted, as that would just be stupid. And sadly, a lot of people seem to do this instead of realising that even though you may not agree with someone's actions...their actions are beneficial to the success of the show and how entertaining it is.

Originally Posted by Wayne-Kerr (Post 4920717)

The straight to DVD actor was wrong, and for anyone to say Denise was in the wrong is either trolling or blinkered by their dislike for her.

Originally Posted by Wayne-Kerr (Post 4920717)

The straight to DVD actor was wrong, and for anyone to say Denise was in the wrong is either trolling or blinkered by their dislike for her.

Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 4922564)

when ARE you going to learn that what you think, what you feel, what you believe is your own view, and not fact. I'll certainly dispute from here to hell and back that pulling down someones trousers was as far removed from being classed as 'fantastic entertainment', as you put it. It is churlish, childish and pathetic behaviour - not fantastic entertaiment - that's my view and I'm intelligent and mature enough to realise that my view in this, is not fact.

Try to avoid getting personal Jack - we are not discussing fms here - we are discussing the show and the housemates - feel free to criticise them, but save your petty insults / critique /criticism for that direction and not towards me.

Originally Posted by Jules2 (Post 4922884)

She was running him down constantly she couldnt let it go, she couldnt get over the fact that he didnt like her......She has to be liked by everyone to allow her to cope with life.

Originally Posted by Jules2 (Post 4922896)

So it was ok for her to bait him? Had she acted in a ladylike manner (lol) she could have proven herself a greater person than him instead of which she let herself down big time. It was her favourite pastime baiting Michael and then going around in the house saying how unreasonable he was. He even asked the help of BB with her. Had he been harassing her he would have been thrown out and booed, look at what happened to Shree, but thereagain he was a male. Had he pulled someones trousers down, there would have been an uproar. One of the Jedward twins was pulled up because he twanged someones bikin bottom. He shouldnt have done it and neither should Denise have done so. Many took her side though as they are doing now with the BOTS thing. BB know what they are doing, they should have perhaps realised how fragile Denise appeard to be and not to have kept on bringing up the fact of Michael. Michael managed not to go into to much detail although his words said it all. She went on and on with her poor little me act.

Michael was the winner where BOTS was concerned, her face looked evil at one stage. Her past was catching up with her. Sad tbh I hope she manages to overcome it all and find peace within herself without having to sell herself so much.

Originally Posted by Jules2 (Post 4922929)

But is it good tv if we watch the demise of one person who cannot accept the responsiblity of growing older? I am all for a few rows etc. but this was cringeworthy and not acceptable. BB should watch more carefully who they put in the house, look what happened to Shree, he tried to commit suicide after the house finished. Not good at all, what happened with Anthony and the other one who constantly harassed him, cringeworthy stuff. Not good tv.

We need a balance of nominations, tasks, fallouts but not to watch someone deteriorate because she isnt accepted by one HM whom she was harassing.

Originally Posted by Ammi (Post 4923045)

Michael's 'input' to Denise's interview has provided discussions and debates therefore it is also 'entertainment' as it set's the interview apart from any other winner interview.....it can't be one without the other. If Denise wasn't 'rude' when she attempted to jab Michael in the house and she wasn't 'rude' or in BB's words 'inappropriate' when she pulled down Karissa's clothing, if it simply provided entertainment, or more, I think controversy, which it did...no matter on what your opinion are...the same has to apply over the interview. I'm still not sure how other's have seen what I haven't (snoring) as it was off camera and I've replayed it, but whatever it was, it should only be described as rude if the same is fairly applied to Denise...imo, at worst I would say controversial....and with any controversial behaviour, as Denise is guilty of also...people are naturally going to have strong opinions

Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 4923054)

Of course the interview was entertaining. In fact, I made it clear in one of the first threads about this incident that I laughed, cringed and then felt awkward. So yes, this was also entertaining. But when you step back and look at it properly and realistically, Michael was out of order. The snoring isn't easily audible, but you can hear it if you try hard enough. Even so, the biggest clue is the fact that the camera keeps panning to where Michael is sitting, and you can see him making facial expressions that resemble someone who is attempting to pretend to snore, you can almost see it coming before Denise pulls him up on it.

Originally Posted by Ammi (Post 4923079)

Imo, I do think this will just go round in circles because if Michael was out of order, and I accept your opinion on that, then several previous incidents in the house instigated by Denise or her behaviour were also out of order, so people will be indignant that Michael is considered rude whereas Denise entertaining...I think Denise's expression is she assumes people will 'get her', maybe Michael was displaying his sense of humour in the interview and some didn't 'get it'...so they assumed it was rude...doesn't mean it was, anymore or less than anything Denise has done...doesn't mean it wasn't either.....it's opinion...and that's all anyone can say because there are situations in the outside world were the tampering of Karissa's clothing would be taken a lot more seriously....but it wasn't the outside world it was the BB house and it wasn't a lecture hall...it was the BB studio and involved two people who have no love lost between them...but opinions will continue, I'm sure.
...I don't normally bother posting in this section once it's over, so the subjects closed for me.....I don't mean that rudely, but it's been a full on three weeks of CBB...and I'm moving on

Originally Posted by Spring (Post 4918273)

Michael did nothing wrong - She's got such a big ego- how dare he speak while she's being interviewed:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 4923085)

Well this seems a bit pointless replying to you, but...

To explain it simply, Michael was rude on the night. Denise was rude many a time towards him inside the house. All of this (both Michael and Denise's incidents) was entertaining. But however, Denise's actions inside the house does not at all entitle Michael to then pretend to snore during her Bit On The Side winner's interview. It's the height of rudeness and I'm afraid it is not something that anybody can have an 'opinion' on. It is without question rude and bad mannered, it doesn't come down to people's own views, it is just simply rude. And yes, before some fellow Michael fan (yes, I'm a Michael fan) pulls me up on it - a lot of the things Denise did to Michael in the house were rude, and I'm not saying they were right either - but those incidents do not permit Michael to be extremely rude to her during the interview. Two wrongs do not make a right as the saying goes, if anything he has lowered himself to her level.

Originally Posted by Jules2 (Post 4923460)

but we didnt see or hear him snore, we only have Denise's word for that at the moment.

Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 4923006)

But it isn't my view, it's not an opinion and it almost certainly is fact. At the end of the day, the incident created hundreds and hundreds of discussion threads on here, DS, many other forums, social networking sites and in real life. Now to a show like Big Brother do you realise how beneficial and essential it is to have talking points? Just try to comprehend for a second what it would be like if there were no incidents to discuss, no arguments, no feuds, nothing. Absolutely nothing. Where would the threads come from? How would shows like Bit On The Side survive? How would the entire show survive? And the answer? It wouldn't. Because the entire show relies on interesting, entertaining, controversial housemates to create interesting discussion points. Without them, the show fails. They are absolutely crucial to the success of a show like Big Brother. Crucial. This is one hundred percent not a case of 'this is your opinion', and sadly, a lot of people don't realise this and fail to think about it logically. Whilst you may not agree with the actions that Denise carried out, or perhaps other housemates - the consequences of their actions led to fantastic TV and debates, all of which are still continuing to this day. See...even this thread is an example. We wouldn't be having this discussion now if it weren't for Denise, Michael and even the twins and Nicola. By virtue of you (or anyone else) even talking about Denise, or any of the other housemates involved in any kind of interesting action in the house, you have or are being entertained by them. That's how it works. It is not an opinion, it is a fact.



No she wasn't...she didn't mention him until asked by Emma. What is she supposed to do, ignore her?



We can all have our own opinions on the incident when looking at it from a realistic, moralistic perspective, but the fact of the matter is it was great TV.

And I'm sorry, but at no point had Denise 'baited' Michael on the night of the final during her Bit On The Side interview. It all started when Michael started pretending to snore, something which in a large majority of places around the world is considered poor manners and very rude. Let's be honest, as I have already mentioned, if you were to do that in a working environment or a lecture you would be thrown out with no hesitation. There are no excuses for it.



Yes. Yes it is, I'm afraid. Call me sadistic, but whilst I did feel sorry for Denise at times (and some of the other housemates), when you look at it from a birds eye perspective (as everyone who watches Big Brother should do), the resulting actions led to days and days of great debate and IMO, unmissable, interesting television. It is these sorts of incidents that benefit the show and give us all something to talk about. And as such, we should all thank Michael, Denise, the twins and Nicola for their great contributions to what was a fantastic series.

Originally Posted by Jules2 (Post 4923483)

If we look at it properly we didnt hear or see him snore, he turned his face away from Denise and clicked his mouth, that wasnt a snore and tbh Denise was droning on and on and on and :sleep:

I know what you are saying re good entertainment but I still do not like to see a person crumble, or perhaps she was acting? As Denise said though, if anything went wrong, she was only joking so......There arent a lot of good views about her on line but we are each entitled to our own opinion as we know.

I will stand by my ground and say Michael was not disrespectful to her in a nasty way (lol isnt that what she said and what Emma agreed that she was not being disrespectful by pulling the pants down, naturally though that is ok for Madam Denise :sleep:), maybe he was joking? I doubt whether many will accept that as it wasnt Denise, I personally think he was as bored with her droning as I was.

The presenters should have known better than to fuel the fire especially as Denise had had the news about someone spilling the beans to the Sunday papers, I bet she was fuming. Still I guess everything is ok for Denise.....Time will tell how she handles herself but whatever she will blame others for her demise if she cannot cope with her inner self and her demons.