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Originally Posted by Ammi
(Post 9811661)
...you’ve branched my thoughts out quite a bit though I have to say...you mention ‘adult discussions’...?...and then of some negative personal things which have been said to you because of personal information disclosed..(..I’m so sorry to hear that...)...the internet is a strange place in that when we do disclose about ourselves in the way of explaining etc or for other reasons or just giving out personal information etc...we’re not only disclosing to our closest friends...(..which is what we have a tendency to do in real life...)...we’re disclosing to strangers essentially and also ‘our closest enemies’...(...and most of us have those..)..also obviously to people who can become generally irritated by our opinions on any given day...anyways...
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I suppose that's true, though for me personally the reason I don't disclose too much / prefer to stay anonymous is that my wife is now quite politically active "in the real world" and increasingly so, to the extent that I actually have to be sort of careful with any personal or political opinions that I share "openly" or at least that they're well thought through and carefully worded... which isn't always how TiBB threads go :joker:.
For the rest of it, I actually don't mind / sort of enjoy when people lose their cool and get personal :umm2:. If someone has to attack arbitrary things about you, it's generally because they're struggling to find any way to attack the argument you were trying to make, which means the logic must be solid... so sort of a validation, really.
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...let’s move on to ‘mansplaining’...because I have to ‘disclose’...:laugh:...that’s a word I haven’t heard before so you had me googling...that then led me to reading a few articles..and to cut it short a little, one article stated that ‘label’ derived from a feminist author...who at a party, had a man explain to her the meaning of her last book...so she had coined the mansplain thing ..so rather than think..oh, that’s interesting to have a male perspective which is a positive thing..she had felt it a negative and completely dismissed an ‘opinion’ by putting a label on it...You’re a man/I’m a woman/you explain and capture my attention/I explain etc and we both absorb and listen, isn’t that the way it all goes down..and ooops, along came a label called mansplaining...which is just quite bizarre...
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That's my main problem with it though, that it's so dismissive. Even if someone feels like something is being "manplained" inaccurately, that can still prompt dialogue. It completely over-rides context, ignores content, no opportunity for any discussion that might lead to interesting conclusions... if someone just shouts "Oh geez thanks for mansplaining!!" and expects there to be nothing more to say, how does that help anyone? But it's not that someone thinks I'm
incorrect that bothers me, it's the shutting down of any opportunity to discuss why, with sweeping reasons.
In the same way, like I said above, I think it's totally wrong for anyone to reply to something and just say "That's racism! You are racist! Nothing more to say!". Though I do think that's different from just simply using the word "racism" in the context of a full post discussing the exact reasons that you think something isn't right.
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I’m assuming that you didn’t feel the mansplain label type thing being something that you are and indeed an incorrect perception of you and I’m assuming that you felt quite negatively about it being attached to you...maybe being attached because of how you post, the things you post about etc...?...all of this is just assumptions for the sake of the discussion as it were...but is that not the same thing or a similar thing to attaching any ‘ist’ label...in that we don’t really know a person from their opinions and how they express those opinions in internet land in the same way we would know a person in real life and more where their opinions And beliefs derive from...I mean, yes we can only go by someone’s words that are typed, so we’re all entitled to ‘label’ with those words...but does that labelling actually progress anything in the discussion for either ‘side’...is it helpful in any way or is it hindering...like the feminist author I guess, she closed her ears from a perspective that had validity and just went in with that mansplaining thing in dismissal...hmmm, I’m not sure I’m completely on board with the thought process of ..if an ‘ism’ is accused of you, then it’s your responsibility to disprove, either...just because in that disproving or explaining as it were, that person might have to disclose something personal about themselves..maybe a childhood environment that has instilled or specific life experiences...which, then makes me think about what you have said about personal stuff and how it can be ‘used to hurt’...
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I guess just to go back to the above - and I know this may not be true for everyone - but it's very rare that if I point something out as racism it's with the intent of it being a personal attack or label, it's just that sometimes it feels like skirting around the issue without actually saying it. I'm also never trying to shut down the discussion when doing it and it's totally open to a back-and-forth and elaboration. Usually. I can admit to having off days when I'm just sick of it; though I guess the thing to do in those situations is just not to post at all. It's a work in progress :joker:
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just the last thing to say really is that you ‘mansplain’ so well and so thoughtfully, TS.. that you often get my thoughts running off in many directions...(...the tricky bit is getting them all back together again to concentrate focus...)...
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Awwwh, thanks :blush2:. Like I said I think it's a work in progress, I have good days and bad days :joker:. The second part there about thoughts running off, I definitely get that, it's happening in my head too and I think I must be one of the worst offenders for derailing threads :think:.
