He's Bad

So he's guilty because he had kids as fans all over the world?

Ariana Grande is fooked.

No...he's guilty because he took advantage of those kids and abused them.

Were you there?

Sorry Chuff I don't agree If I thought anyone had done that to my child no amount of money would suffice I would want justice, the documentary is supposed to make you believe the two guys, I'm not buying it from two proven liars and some
things I have read about them

Where?

In what sense? I watched it. I can see that he's getting frustrated but I also think it's fairly obvious that he wholeheartedly believes that the content of his documentary is the truth. I honestly can't see what in this clip results in him being branded "a piece of work" (other than that you clearly strongly believe in Michael Jackson's innocence and are thus incredulous about all of it).

Are we watching?

Which is kind of dangerous when he skews everything just to fit what he thinks and disregards anything that doesn't suit the agenda.

But, you'll rarely, if ever, get a documentary like this that isn't in someway biased one way or the other. Even Making a Murderer left out huge swathes of information to paint the picture the director intended.

The random nonsensical Ted Bundy comparison. :joker:

Taking an objective view, a statement made under oath takes precedence over one not under oath. There is no legal ramification for people lying their teeth off about events that happened years ago, when their subject is now dead.

That director is clearly not objective in his reasoning and that will have completely tainted his documentary. Does that mean Jackson is innocent? No it doesn't, but it doesnt mean he is guilty either

Bloody Hell Harrison Ford better be careful,he showed that kid how to use his bullwhip, this just seems to be the two guys reliving the fact they got to be with someone famous,the mother seems really enamoured by it all

And Piers didn't get very far when he was asking about the money factor of it all.

Yes grim

Ok so I kind of don't think he is lying

I kind of do think he is lying.

I think he is lying as he has form.

Is he gay?

I didn't really want to watch this at all as I didn't want to give creedence to that director as no doubt this will be a ratings smash and make him the money he knew it would,but if I want to make up my mind properly I have to watch it , but seen nothing yet as proof of what he is accused of.

Me neither

I mean the relationships were weird as **** for an adult man to have with kids. How people can deny that is just odd

Agree

Oh it was strange. Just not evidence of pedophilia.

It's highly unlikely to be anything else though lbr

Well a man saying he wanked him off as a child would be a start

Considering their ages at the time they have extraordinary memories. Blasey- Ford was mocked because she couldn't remember some details about her own sexual abuse when she was seventeen.

A man who could also be lying

Even taking out everything they say, just what we could actually see is ****ed up

What have you seen that has ****ed you up :shrug:

Oh Kazanne [emoji1787] like you would have left your kids sleep with a 30 odd year old "lonely" man and think nothing of it, come off the stage

Kaz, serious question....were/are you a massive MJ fan? I'm struggling a little to understand that you don't think its slightly weird that a grown man would think its ok to share a bed with a child....and you still defend it. I agree hugely with TS in that whether or not you think anything dodgy went on or not, you have to see that the way he swapped his "favourites" as they aged is not strange at best, cruel at worst? Even if the sexual abuse didn't happen, what he did is is abuse to a child that age, in their mind its tantamount to neglect and abandonment.

I need to watch this latest documentary I think. I do think its highly likely he was dodgy as ****. Yes I think its partly to do with his own life but, thats not really an excuse. I do suspect that some parents of the kids who were sent to stay at his were seeking compensation..because come on, everyone knew the rumours, which responsible parent would allow their kid to sleep in a bed with him? Really. This does not mean the kids were complicit in their own abuse mind, but I do think some of the parents are suspect.

And also, I love MJs music, a lot of it anyway. Its going to be a bit of a pain in the arse if it ends like Glitters, where I am not allowed to play it at work as a lot of his songs are instant dancefloor fillers!

I'm relatively old and Iv had a life. I've studied criminals at degree level, I'm not daft, Iv been to jail's, nothing Iv seen tonight says they are lying

I agree though the parents were totally irresponsible and failed to protect their children

Star struck

I would not ,but people are different and the ones mother said he was like a son so, she let him besides I doubt his bed or bedroom was a tiny little space like most are ,so even if they were in bed together I doubt they were side by side,and he did sleep on the floor a lot people always assume people cant sleep together without getting sexual,you can I've done it myself.I am not denying he was strange but I do not believe these two so far,and why if it was so awful has the one guy kept the jewellery MJ brought him,? give me facts and I will get off the stage.

I don't care if you change your mind or not, you already said enough by answering that question, no responsible parent would allow their 7 year old child share a bedroom with some 30 year old guy because it's dodgy as **** and he's dodgy as ****

I'm not doubting that, The FBI secretly investigate Michael Jackson for four years - tracking his where abouts, his computers, phone calls, etc and release a 300 plus page file completely vindicating him, stating there was absolutely nothing to even remotely suggest he was an abuser, and the general public (and media) completely ignores it. Yet two admitted liars and perjurers (one of which who even refers to himself as a ‘master of deception’) can come out with a completely one sided, sensationalist story (yes story not documentary) which contains literally no evidence whatsoever (and is full of inconsistencies) and a large majority of the public doesn’t even question it.

The jurors who found Michael Jackson not guilty in his 2005 trial agree with the FBI. Juror Paulina Coccoz said: ‘It was pretty obvious there was no molestation done...it was pretty obvious that there were ulterior motives on behalf of the family. And the mother, she orchestrated the whole thing..there wasn’t a shred of evidence’.

Just because a story is graphic and disturbing doesn’t make it factual. Before you judge anything do your research. Facts don’t lie, people do.

The bottom line is..

If you want to view Michael Jackson as a pedophile, you will. It’s easy to do. He admitted to allowing children to sleep in his bedroom (which itself is the same size as a small two story house) and has been accused of child molestation more then once. He’s not the guy next door, was undeniably eccentric, and most certainly didn’t live a conventional life.

But to anyone who has bothered to look into the allegations against him - and I mean really look into them - there is more than enough evidence to demonstrate that he was a victim of extortion and of copycat false claims for the past twenty five years. Yet despite the Los Angeles Police Department stating that Jackson should be presumed to be innocent, despite a jury finding him not guilty on every single charge against him, despite the Los Angeles Department of Children and Family Services twice investigating and clearing him of wrongdoing, despite the FBI conducting a very thorough investigation in which no evidence of wrongdoing was found, and despite the cash grab lawsuits of his posthumous accusers being tossed out of court, the court of public opinion may sadly be what defines this saga and a large part of his legacy.

In all honesty kaz, I feel you are answering as a fan rather than a mum. Whether he slept on the floor, in a twin bed or strapped to the roof, he was a grown man wanting to sleep in the same room / area / bed as a kid that he wasn't related to. Any way I look at that, its wrong......from the parents view, wtf, anyone asked that to me with my son regardless of the status, riches or whatever, just no....but MJ was an adult....he was wrong. Then after doing whatever, dropping them for a younger midel is sick, cruel etc etc

Ill tell you what, had it been my kid he'd ****ed with, death would be preferable...sexual or emotional abuse

You can swear as much as you like ,it doesn't make him guilty of being an abuser your opinion is valid to you ,as mine is to me, here we have two liars against a dead man.The parents were irresponsible but they got what they wanted out of it