Your right it is their decision. They have that right.

It's their choice to kill themselves and not once have I said otherwise today. I just don't agree with it. I have no sympathy with people that kill themselves regardless of the situation. If that makes me heartless, I couldn't care less.

Glenn, if you had a relative that has suffered with extreme depression for several years and they had done everything that they could to help themselves (drugs, psychiatrists, doctors etc) and they could no longer cope with life and just lived like a vegetable because they could not take the world. Constantly upset, constantly crying, not enjoying anything, spoiling things for others around them because they cannot even physically smile anymore or see the good in things.

They were begging you about how their only wish was to die ad they could not take life anymore, crying on you about how it was far too painful. Are you telling us you would say that is selfish of them and you would not accept it as the best thing for that person at that point? or would in fact you be the selfish one, saying that their decision is selfish even though their pain could be a whole lot worse than any of the grievers may feel?

Your right, it is their decision, but 99% of them have perfect reasons.
I am also against suicide, there are always people to speak to about suicide, but people have their reasons, child abuse, bullying, whatever the case.

That one sentence negates the whole of your argument. If you couldn't care less about another human being's suffering, then your opinion is pretty much worthless:idc:

how ironic that an anti-bullying thread turns into.....

There really wouldn't be that much you could do in circumstances like that. If they fail to help themselves with a network of family and friends that want to help around them, then they would be a lost cause. There's nothing worse than someone unwilling to help themselves. There's a difference to someone wanting help to people that refuse it, because 'its too much'


The father in this situation was the front of a campaign to stop bullying. That should of been enough. Knowing he was striving for something positive in what must of been an unbearable time. He also had his wife who needed his support, because she lost a son too. He was duty bound to support her as the wife was duty bound to do likewise. Not to mention the friends of the family plus the followers of his campaign.



Yeah sure. Because the father thought of his wife as he was tying a rope around his neck.

The same can be said to those that today have brushed off my replies as ignorant. My posts being quashed because I don't agree with throwing a life away. No life is worthless.

Yes. I was bullied in middle school and had to take a year out because of it. I thought about ending it. I even started writing a letter to my mum and dad apologizing for what I was doing. I couldn't finish the letter because I was overcome with emotion. The mere thought of my mother and father finding my lifeless body hanging in my bedroom was enough to put me straight. I overcome it. I went to school and put the tosser making my life hell in hospital and learned to stick up for myself.

So in answer to your question yes I have been suicidal. I know perfectly well what it feels like, but I refused to be that person and put my family through that pain.

Who are you to say what makes someone happy?

Didn't actually. In fact I objected to the thread being bumped so soon after her death. Try harder.

Would that not of made you happy then? Knowing he had all that support?

Seems to me your clutching at straws.

No to be honest it wouldn't. What do you not understand about the fact he probably had a depressive gene which caused the chemicals in his brain to not produce at the optimum balance. It is ridiculous that because people believed in his cause it means he should have been happy. You do not know what else was going on in his personal life also.

Also me 'clutching at straws'? Your whole premise is ridiculous to begin with.

Anyone who makes excuses about how suicide is right is ridiculous.

No one has said it is right. It just is not always entirely wrong.

What about when the twin towers got crashed into? People committed suicide rather than burning to death? Was that entirely wrong and selfish?

Yeah. They were going to die anyway. I would of killed myself if I was up in them towers, knowing there was no way out.

Its not really comparable to the situation we're discussing though is it?

I have sat here and read every post here and to be perfectly honest: I am pretty disgusted at the way some (many) posters on here are addressing Glenn.

He has his own opinion and has spent time explain why he has his views. I have seen no posts in which he has been disrespectful: yet he's been accused of that.

So far, I've seen him being cursed at, being told he is wrong, ignorant, doesn't know what he is talking about and god know what else - simply because he sees suicide in a different light to others on here.

What happened to respecting someone elses opinion - regardless of how controversial it may be? Is that no longer allowed on this forum without the person being sworn at and insulted in all manner of ways?

I for one, totally and completely understand exactly where Glenn is coming from. 100% understand. I understand because I have been there in fairly similar circumstances: as in 'this woman, the wife in this sad story' being left having to deal with not one suicide but two. - and I can tell you all quite categorically: that whilst no one can understand what depth of despair the suicidal person in, no one can be in the suicidal person's mind and appreciate what does drive them to make that final fatal decison: the twist in the knife is that it IS selfish to the one / ones that are left behind. There IS a degree of selfishness in the act. Is it cowardly to take your own life? yes, partly imo. It must also be one of the hardest things to do at the same time.

I can tell say with hand on heart - it leaves so much doubt that you yourself feel worthless, that in reality, you meant little to that person who took their own life, you are left feeling helpless because you perhaps didn't notice how bad they were, or could you have helped more, , you feel that you weren't able to help the one you loved, questions go unanswered, you feel completely abandoned by those you loved and that's before you even start to think about grieving for them. That's only touching the surface on how it feels. And here's the kick: that feeling never leaves you. EVER.

The person who takes their own life - having already experienced the pain a suicide has caused / is causing them: they know how hard it is to cope with (to the point that they cannot cope and elect for suicuide). They know those feelings that I've just mentioned above - and know them all too well.

To expect the person/s left behind to have to deal with double that feeling with a second suicuide - it's not saying that they aren't thinking of that person: but at that particular point in time, what they are thinking more of : is their OWN grief and how they cannot cope with it. Whether that be through feeling a failure as a parent, mixed with the grief, the hurt, the pain..... whatever goes on in their mind: That means more to them, than the other person they know they are going to leave behind. It's enough to make them follow the same terrible path.

I can see both points of view - those who take their own life: and those who are left behind.

But to berate Glenn in the manner that some of you are doing here because he has a strong opinion - and to speak to him in the manner that some are: is out of order.

I don't particularly care who agrees or disagrees with me - but that's my tuppeniesworth - I don't intend belittling, cursing or mocking anyone who doesn't share my opinon: I may not agree but I'll respect someone else thought and views.

How so, depression could be the same, trapped in your own mind, knowing there is no way to get better, having to live with constant mental pain. How is that completely different?

Thanks Pyramid :hug:

Knowing that you death is imminent Charlie: either by way of being burnt alive, crushed and dying in absolute agony: vs throwing yourself from 120 floor up and death coming quickly is a completely different ball game altogether.

There was literally NO hope of getting out of them towers alive.

Being trapped in a burning building is not the same as being trapped in your own mind. They were being burnt alive.

To make such a comparison is disgusting.

We now know there was no hope. Most of them did not know what was happening, they may have been saved they did not know.

You have clearly never felt depression. The fact you say someone should just be able to live with their pain is far more disgusting as you do not know what they go through. It is a horrible, painful monster, depression is. Sometimes death and a sense of nothingness is better than being in constant pain.

I believe it is different in a sense of physical and mental yes, but in honesty I believe the mind can cause a million times more pain than a physical effect can. I believe that the mental pain of depression spread over many years would be worse as the mind can override physical pain and inflict a great deal of mental pain.

That's your stance on it then. 'They didn't know what was happening'


My friend I no longer feel inclined to argue with you.

You are now clutching at straws by twisting your own example to suit your argument.

And yes I have felt depression. I know what its like to feel there is nothing. The thought of devastating my family and friends eased that.

Don't talk to me about not knowing what depression is.

Charlie, with all respect: you don't KNOW what anyone else may have gone through in their life. They shouldn't have to declare that they 'do know from personal experience'' to prove their point.

Depression affects people all so very differently on various levels.

I don't find Glenn's views disgusting. I may not agree with some of his views: but he has his reasons - just as you have yours - and each of you feel strongly.

I dont' think there is anything to be gained from labelling anyone disgusting because they don't have your view: from personal insight or not.

The comparison to the TT, is not comparable to the mental anguish of depression. Depression doesn't take hold in the space of an hour or two: the comparison simply is not there. IMO of course.

Regardless of your other points I don't think I would ever say suicide was someone's best option.

Its never an option, whatever situation.