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Why do you feel my opinions and those of the evidence in my post is ignorant and unsubstantiated? The only tired argument here is yours. |
You're inconceivably naive and ignorant on this topic. No point debating with you any further.
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I think I am going to do the same given the weakness of the response to my post.
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I have to give full credit where credit is due,I am really in awe at this post and your previous one I commented on too. The part of your post I have highlighted in bold above is also something I do strongly myself agree with. Really brilliant and clearly informed posts,well said Stu, really informative and attention holding. |
..I'm still working through the Portugal decriminalization links Stu...I didn't read the 37 page PDF document but I'm slowly and steadily reading all the other articles and there are some very convincing statistics so far...well done for the post and information btw...a lot of time and effort taken, I'll make sure I read it all...
..(apart from the 37 page PDF doc..).... |
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...on-eva-rausing
Sigrid Rausing argues that drug addiction should be treated as an illness, and I agree – but I don't believe prohibition is what makes drugs dangerous http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...ion-drugs-laws Don't get hysterical – we're not suggesting ministers jump on a plane, go to Lisbon and start taking cannabis. We are suggesting that they look at what is happening all over the world. What this does not make the case for, and what we're against, is legalising or decriminalising any drugs. We're very, very clear about that. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20720122 "After all, this is a war, the war on drugs, in which over 2,000 people are losing their lives in Britain every year, in which one in five 11 to 15-year-olds in this country now say they're trying drugs, where young people now are telling us that it's easier to get hold of drugs than it is to get hold of alcohol or tobacco'' http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...21157.htmlJack Straw insisted he did not support the decriminalisation of soft drugs, such as cannabis'' http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...-drugs-science ''One of our first priorities will be to review the effects of "legal highs" such as mephedrone, sometimes referred to as "miaow". Currently, it's perfectly legal to buy and use these drugs in a completely unregulated manner. Yet there are real scientific concerns about the harm they might cause I have addressed half your UK related links here stu, there are points for and against in every one. There has to be a balance. Surely nobody would have suggested that cannabis wasn't medicinally beneficial in it's natural state? |
I'm confused by what you're doing here. In cherry picking certain links and copy and pasting certain quotes you're actually inadvertently just clarifying and supporting my own views that the war on drugs is not working.
In addition to that, why wouldn't there be points for and against? Like I already said the purpose of providing those specific links were to highlight how there is a movement to reform drug law, that it is a feasible idea that people of importance are discussing and that it's not a pseudo science based, unsubstantiated dubious prospect. The exact words you applied to my arguments. And I've achieved just that in posting the links that I did. Furthermore, when did I say that there shouldn't be a balance? Of course there should be. And that balance is not the war on drugs. It's not the failed effort that you continue to staunchly support. Balance is a fair and rational system that aims to protect people as much as possible from the harms of drugs and to help those who have fallen prey to them but likewise to not piss away billions annually and waste the time and effort of law enforcement in locking up responsible recreational drug users in some weird effort to make the problem just go away. Prohibition does not work. It is an afront to civil liberties and freedom of conscious. |
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You have no idea what I staunchly support... do you? What this boils down to is the fact some feel they are restricted from doing what they want...like the lady in the OP..but there are restrictions , some social and some legal. There has been for millenia and will continue to be... |
The way I see things are firstly this woman shouldn't have been smuggling drugs into the Country anyway.
Furthermore, I myself and from the opinions on here few if any really think she should suffer the death penalty. Preferring a prison sentence instead for her as outlined by her original defence who asked for that and I believe that will be the outcome eventually. She did wrong,she got caught and there is a penalty to pay for that,I however don't agree the death penalty is the right thing. As happens with these cases however,it opens up though the debate of drugs generally and the legality or illegality of same. Countries maybe need to look at their drugs laws and also the heavy penalties some have as to certain drugs. I don't feel any need myself to say much more as to that as I agree with and have to applaud the posts and efforts of Stu on this subject and he has shown in my view, deep and great insight to the issue. There is now debate in this Country too by MPs and other organisations that our drug laws are not working and that some drugs should or could be de-criminalised or relaxed and Stu has highlighted other Countries where they have a far better attitude and record with drugs than we could even hope for. I hope that day does come,I agree with all Stu has said as to cannabis and hopefully as more countries wake up to doing something better on this issue then maybe other nations such as the one this Lady got into bother with may also follow on too. |
The woman ****ed up in another Country and if they want to kill her that's up to them.
Not down with this 'war on drugs' nonsense though. Drugs are a part of life and people from all classes are taking them. There is a minority who get addicted but for the most part people just have a good time. |
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Continue to be? Again, no. Prohibition will not last. It never does. The trend of softening drug laws is more prominent now than ever and is taking hold in certain parts of the world. It will only spread more and more. U.S. states are falling over themselves to legalize Cannabis. And as with many things where the U.S. goes the world may follow. |
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Everybody needs a bit of Bill.
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I think the government are making noise but nothing will be changed, nothing will make that happen. We have a bad enough attitude to alcohol in th UK to risk exacerbating the problems that exist in our communities.
No matter what you, I or the american guy with the mullet says. |
If you start trying to diss Bill the debate is very much lost :shrug:
Night Kizzy |
Looks like this thread started as a debate on whether the death penalty should be given to drug ( heroin) smugglers in certain countries but ended up as a debate on the Govts failing drugs policy and the call for decriminalisation/ legalisation of all drugs ...??
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..in a way it's relevant Nedusa..one of the arguments is that she 'deserves' the death penalty because of the lives that would have been devastated/possibly lost if she had succeeded in smuggling them through...a member is proving the more positives and effectiveness of decriminalisation and linking the successes where other ways have been tried...
....it may be a bit of a sidetrack but to me it is all relevant to the extreme of this punishment and why it's a completely futile punishment..as well as being inhumane.... |
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It is wrong plain and simple and the Govts in these countries should have the full pressure of the international community brought to bear in an attempt to end this medieval practice ...!! |
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Many Countries have severe sentencing for drug crimes, some Countries are moving to a different approach to drugs and even the debate is going on here in the UK, despite Govt protestations,by MPs who have looked at the issue and other groups making noises for the de-criminalisation and relaxation of laws of some drugs at least. As you say very relevant to the original point as should more Countries decide to go down that route eventually then the sentencing in other Countries may well get relaxed too which would have affected the lady in question. I still believe the Lady will get her sentence revoked to a prison term, I also hope that is the case, it would really shock me if that doesn't come about. |
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..I hope so Joey, it's a shame the sentence was given in the first place, but I hope that proper justice is served here, which doen't mean standing someone against a wall and firing bullets into them....in what universe does that solution seem appropriate... ..good morning btw...I hope you are well..... |
According to Amnesty International there are 20 countries which have executed people in the last year. China has apparently executed “thousands”, around 300 in the Middle East (with Iran being the Middle Eastern country with the highest execution rate), in 2011 the USA executed around 40 people with Alabama, Arizona, Ohio and Texas executing the most people. So I guess my question is this: is everyone just upset that this woman is British? Because I don't see many other threads popping up decrying the barbarity of other countries who use the death penalty.
As for the claims that death by firing squad is primitive, the Iranian Penal Code, Article 104 states that, “The size of the stone used in stoning shall not be too large to kill the convict by one or two throws and at the same time shall not be too small to be called a stone." |
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What successes there have been are dependant from whose stance you are looking from judging by the links stu provided. Is the punishment also so hand wringingly tragic due to the fact she is a white woman in her 50's? If she were a young black male would this have attracted the same level of public attention? |
[QUOTE=Kizzy;5813704]A member is not Proving anything. They have suggested that it may be considered, nothing can be proven untill it has been implamented and measured.
What successes there have been are dependant from whose stance you are looking from judging by the links stu provided. Is the punishment also so hand wringingly tragic due to the fact she is a white woman in her 50's? If she were a young black male would this have attracted the same level of public attention?[/QUOTE] ...it's not something that I would even think of...I think I'll leave that debate to you.... |
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