Originally Posted by Soldier Boy (Post 11274997)

Who cares about those brainwashed alt-right log cabin republican Auntie Tams GoldHeart; they're crafted entirely out of hate and bile.

Originally Posted by Tom4784 (Post 11274998)

People who detransition aren't called quitters? Like where did you hear any of this? You're a great example of what happens when someone lacks critical thinking regarding their sources and they just believe whatever they like the sound of.

Detransitioning is rare, and you're only making out that it's 'swept' under the carpet because you ultimately want to push a false narrative that a lot of people regret transitioning when it's not the case.

The rest of your post is just inane nonsense that's not worth addressing.

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy (Post 11274995)

You're the only one mentioning "main characters" Dezzy - and you've accused multiple people of it with very little foundation. It's quite an obvious projection at this point? You've just told me not to bother with a long reply, that it was a rhetorical question, because you aren't interested in a long answer. I've never thought you were here for my benefit - but I'm not writing any of this for your benefit either, Dezzy? So why wouldn't I reply? I genuinely don't care if you even read it; your responses to me (and everyone else) are the same every time. Overly aggressive, telling people they're self-important bigots, letting us know that you're just here to tell everyone what's what, and even suggesting that you're "making people feel bad". I don't see how you possibly could be when the responses are just a rehash of the same insults you throw around in every reply, and entirely predictable.

You do lack self-awareness. I haven't made excuses, my views on this change and progress on his topic quite a bit actually, and I've criticised the people piggybacking suppoort on the issue to for their own ends in this thread only for you to claim that I don't do it :think:. Does there have to be an element of righteous fury for you to accept it as valid?

No number of kids killing themselves is an acceptible. My daughter has trans friends. They're great kids. They all sadly have some very clear issues that have nothing to do with gender (mostly family issues). There are a number of complex mental health comorbidities that come along with and often precede questioning gender identity, that come long before and extend far beyond "people are mean about it". I strongly believe that the best way to keep people safe is to get the actual work done in understanding that. You want to oversimplify it into something basic and pretend that if everyone just stops talking about it, everyone will be happy & fine. That thinking is by far the more dangerous thinking -- luckily, experts and professionals do actually understand that. I just hope your ilk aren't successful in bullying all of those professionals out in favour of non-expert peer support. Which has its place, but not front and centre.

Hope you enjoyed my TED talk.

Originally Posted by GoldHeart (Post 11275005)

I've heard a few of the LGBTQ community reject them,and like I said I watched a podcast where a very vocal trans woman called them "quitters", she lacked any compassion for them.

Originally Posted by Tom4784 (Post 11275006)

Ah, so you're echoing the same non-logic as Goldheart at this point that should be a red flag. 'You can't point out stereotypes without being guilty of said stereotypes!' 'You can't point out that we think you exist for our benefit without us accusing you of the same!'

You guys are the ones making out that your validation and belief is somehow integral to my views and that I have to prove them to you, yet you accuse me of projecting main character syndrome onto you? That lack of self-awareness is striking again, TS. You act like I'm projecting but when have I have I made out in this thread that you need to prove anything to me? I have the same standards for you as I do myself, but you cannot say the same without being a complete hypocrite and a liar.

Everything you say about trans basically comes down to 'Yeah, trans suicide and violence is bad, BUT' and there's a lot in that but. You're just covering your bases, nothing more.

Ah, so now I'm 'bullying professionals' although I've clearly always said that people should defer to medical advice related to transitioning even when people like you pick and choose when it comes to when medical advice is valid or not. God you're just throwing **** at a wall and hoping it sticks, aren't you?

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 11275007)

There's a Detransition Subreddit with over 45k members, it isn't rare at all

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 11275007)

There's a Detransition Subreddit with over 45k members, it isn't rare at all

Originally Posted by Tom4784 (Post 11275009)

Goldheart went out of her way to find one example of something and now she thinks that's a searing indictment for trans people as a whole.

Again, do I have to bring up the Myra Hindley example again to show you how dumb that logic is? You'll find **** people of every persuasion, but holding up a podcast host as representative to all trans people is like saying that Myra Hindley is representative of women. It's a ****ing ridiculous thing to say.

Originally Posted by Tom4784 (Post 11275013)

The most popular reddits have over 30 million members. The main trans reddit (not counting any other more specialist reddits too) shadows that reddit in terms of numbers too.

You've also got to ask yourself some questions regarding that reddit. Has it always had that number or has it ballooned recently with efforts from the right and GCs to push detransitioning as a common thing? How many people on that reddit are trans and how many are bad actors or brigaders pushing an agenda?

Detransitioning does happen, but it's not a thing to most people and there's only a narrative that it's more common than people think because gender critical people believe that such a narrative hurts trans people.

Originally Posted by Tom4784 (Post 11275013)

Has it always had that number or has it ballooned recently with efforts from the right and GCs to push detransitioning as a common thing? How many people on that reddit are trans and how many are bad actors or brigaders pushing an agenda?

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy (Post 11275019)

So detransitioners aren't called quitters -- they're accused of being liars and alt-right agents in disguise. I'm not sure that's much better (I'm being flippant here - of course it's significantly worse).

But yes I have seen this before - people who have detransitioned being aggressively harassed and accused of being right-wing/GC patsies. Not really a safe thing to talk about openly in LGBTQ circles, is it?

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy (Post 11275019)

So detransitioners aren't called quitters -- they're accused of being liars and alt-right agents in disguise. I'm not sure that's much better (I'm being flippant here - of course it's significantly worse).

But yes I have seen this before - people who have detransitioned being aggressively harassed and accused of being right-wing/GC patsies. Not really a safe thing to talk about openly in LGBTQ circles, is it?

Originally Posted by Tom4784 (Post 11274998)

People who detransition aren't called quitters? Like where did you hear any of this?

Originally Posted by GoldHeart (Post 11275012)

In the last few years it's actually risen ,so that doesn't surprise me at all. But sadly they get shunned by the community.

And 10 years ago the whole trans thing wasn't an issue. I truly believe social media,and a spike in self entitled people have hijacked it .

Here's an interesting video . Not sure if you've watched it

Originally Posted by Cherie (Post 11275058)

Nice to hear from an actual trans person for a change, thanks for the clip GH

Originally Posted by Oliver_W (Post 11275049)

Google it, it's not GoldHeart's job to educate you, she's not a supporting player to your main character.

:fist:

Originally Posted by GoldHeart (Post 11275066)

:wavey:
Tbh I'm surprised she was allowed the platform ....as usually we get the other side pushing stuff , I'm glad we got to hear her views aswell.

Originally Posted by Cherie (Post 11275070)

Would shouting in an agressive way be allowed on any other topic? i think not snd as for crossing the house to sit and glare at her...he should be sectioned

Originally Posted by GoldHeart (Post 11275014)

The really sad thing is I didn't need to "go out of my way" , it's all out there in bundles . You can keep putting your fingers in your ears and ignoring it .

She wasn't the host ,she was a trans guest on the podcast . But you can pretend her opinion is invisible all you like,but she said what she said ...and it's not a one off thing . Other people in the community have said similar statements about detransioners.

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy (Post 11275001)

Detransitioning when actually down the transitioning path (hormones, surgery) is rare - gander swapping back to natal gender after a period of identifying as transgender in teenagers is extremely common (in fact it's most people who experiment with gender, in a period of 6 months to two years).

And yes; they are often socially rejected by their LGBTQ+ peers if they choose to "switch back" their names and pronouns. It's quite a big issue in high schools. I've literally seen it happen to two kids.

Originally Posted by Soldier Boy (Post 11275011)

I've asked you once to back up a claim you made, because it sounded unreasonable and exaggerated, a perfectly normal part of any debate, and you couldn't... so I checked for myself... and discovered that there was no evidence whatsoever for the claim that you made. You don't need to "prove anything to me" in any grand sense Dezzy, I think I know enough :umm2:.

"Here are some facts for you. What? Back them up with anything more than my own word?? How dare you!"