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-   -   More Black stars Boycott Racist Oscars 2016 (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295871)

Marsh. 21-01-2016 06:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia (Post 8448833)
That's all been addressed pages back. Keep up, Marshy...
You have to give the banned people time to re-accustom themselves to the forum Liv :fist:

Marsh. 21-01-2016 06:43 PM
The oldest thing I've seen Idris Elba in was that episode of Ab Fab where he plays a gigolo.

I didn't realise it was him until a few months ago.

And how apt what Patsy says to him?

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video_th...fuCUAARSB7.png

:joker:

GiRTh 21-01-2016 06:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 8448936)
The oldest thing I've seen Idris Elba in was that episode of Ab Fab where he plays a gigolo.

I didn't realise it was him until a few months ago.

And how apt what Patsy says to him?

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video_th...fuCUAARSB7.png

:joker:
:joker:

He's does better English accent than Connery.

kirklancaster 21-01-2016 06:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 8447968)
I do agree with Livia here; Bond can't be black unless it's a(nother) reboot. It's not that a spy can't be black, or that you couldn't make a film exactly LIKE a bond film with a black Bond, it's just that you couldn't have a black actor take on the currently established role of Bond. Because, as Livia says, it would alter the character's history, make past situations impossible, and therefore break the canon.

I had a similar discussion over in the movies forum about "black Hermione". Black Hermione in a new interpretation of the source material, i.e. a new play based on the first book and onwards, would in my opinion be 100% fine. Suddenly casting a black Hermione in a direct sequel to the already established interpretation does not work. Because that Hermione is not black.

I used the current CW series of The Flash as an example here too: Wally West has just appeared in the series, an established character from the comics, and in the show he is black whereas in others he's been white. There's no problem there at all, because this is his FIRST appearence in THIS interpretation of The Flash, he is a character based on the source character, they are not necessarily the same character... in exactly the same way that the "Smallville" Green Arrow and the "Arrow" Green Arrow are based on the same source material but are clearly not the same character.

Other examples, and sorry for all the superhero **** :joker:

Toby maguire and Andrew Garfield (and now Tom Holland) are NOT the same Spider-man; they could have cast anyone... each is a new interpretation.

Terence Howard and Don Cheadle ARE the same War Machine. He is established. And so changing the actor to a Japanese guy in Iron Man 2 would have been ludicrous; he had to "stay black".

In other words... I'm a bit of a stickler for fiction and canon, and for me, each interpretation of a character becomes as if they are that human being. Slight appearance changes / actor changes are one thing, changing something so fundamental that it would change the character's entire backstory is another thing. Tl;dr - for me, the established Bond can no more change his race than you or I can, in order for me to consider it "good fiction", and not break my immersion. The established Bond is who he is.

Now... all of that said... I wouldn't particularly have any problem with them rebooting Bond again after Daniel Craig leaves, and casting a black Bond with a different back story, and a different set of "old missions" under his belt as experience. I think the reboot worked well this time around - for those not in the know... Connery all the way up to Brosnan were all "the same Bond" - Daniel Craig is NOT that same Bond, but an entirely new character.

Having "sets" of three or four movies each with a completely "fresh" Bond would work fairly well (a reboot with each actor change), IMO. But they would have to make that clear. A new origin story for a new Bond.
:clap1::clap1::clap1::clap1::clap1::clap1::clap1:: clap1::clap1::clap1:

At the risk of now being written off as a T,S, 'groupie' - What truly wonderful COMMON FECKING SENSE.

Ithinkiloveyoutoo 21-01-2016 07:24 PM
Too many white people's opinions here from white people's POVs.

Ithinkiloveyoutoo 21-01-2016 07:29 PM
'It's not that a spy can't be black, or that you couldn't make a film exactly LIKE a bond film with a black Bond, it's just that you couldn't have a black actor take on the currently established role of Bond. Because, as Livia says, it would alter the character's history, make past situations impossible, and therefore break the canon.' And yet white hollywood has been perfectly comfortable putting white actors in roles meant for blacks or people of color. Jesus of Nazareth, Cleopatra, Moses, recently they tried it with the film about a black transgender activist by putting a blue eyed white man but people have too much of a voice now with social media so they didn't just sit back and let it happen.

user104658 21-01-2016 08:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithinkiloveyoutoo (Post 8449034)
'It's not that a spy can't be black, or that you couldn't make a film exactly LIKE a bond film with a black Bond, it's just that you couldn't have a black actor take on the currently established role of Bond. Because, as Livia says, it would alter the character's history, make past situations impossible, and therefore break the canon.' And yet white hollywood has been perfectly comfortable putting white actors in roles meant for blacks or people of color. Jesus of Nazareth, Cleopatra, Moses, recently they tried it with the film about a black transgender activist by putting a blue eyed white man but people have too much of a voice now with social media so they didn't just sit back and let it happen.
Either you didn't read all of what I said and jumped after the first sentence, or you're not a fan of serial movie / TV universes and have no idea what I'm talking about when I mention established rules / canon.

I specifically said that there's no issue with having a black Bond, *** IF *** you reboot (start over) the "Bond universe" that those movies are set in and give him a new back story. The roles you're talking about are standalone type movies (contained universes) and so the director has free reign with casting, IMO. Whether their decisions are good or bad is still up for debate, but the decision is theirs. They can cast whoever or whatever they want. They can do the whole thing in CGI. They can make a whole cast of sea mammals and put a whole new twist on "James Pond".

What they can't do is make dramatic changes to a character in an established universe and expect to maintain the suspension of disbelief that makes movies enjoyable.

It's not a race superiority issue at all. Not for me, anyway. I would have just as much of a problem with it if I was to walk into "Cap 3: Civil War"when it comes out and find that The Falcon or War Machine (both black characters) had been replaced with white actors. Just the same as if Iron Man was suddenly Chinese, or Black Widow was suddenly played by a 6ft tall man.

Marsh. 21-01-2016 08:31 PM
But Bond doesn't stick to an established universe or canon anyway.

One or two movies almost carry on from the other but other than that, the rules chop and change all of the time anyway. Even when there isn't a change of lead actor.

James Bond is not an example of having a strong canon. It's like Doctor Who, the rules and backstory changes to suit the whims of the person in charge of it at any given time.

The lead characters skin being a different colour really is nothing in comparison.

King Gizzard 21-01-2016 08:40 PM
If it sticked to a story he'd be ancient by now init

user104658 21-01-2016 08:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 8449337)
But Bond doesn't stick to an established universe or canon anyway.

One or two movies almost carry on from the other but other than that, the rules chop and change all of the time anyway. Even when there isn't a change of lead actor.

James Bond is not an example of having a strong canon. It's like Doctor Who, the rules and backstory changes to suit the whims of the person in charge of it at any given time.

The lead characters skin being a different colour really is nothing in comparison.
It doesn't have a strong canon but it has only changed once. Ending with Brosnan and rebooting with Craig. There have been established ties between all of the previous movies. Yes, there are numerous examples of canon "flexibility" already in Bond, as you mentioned is the case with Doctor Who, but the fact that it already exists doesn't mean that it *should* exist or that it should be encouraged... I hate it when the goalposts are moved. Even little bits for convenience. For example, it bugs the **** out of me that they make a big deal about "wordless spells" being difficult in the early Harry Potter stories and then by the end, every dopey Hogwards kid with half a wand is throwing them around with a flick of their wrist...

I digress.

Rule changes mid-game are bad. Always bad. Bad for the story, bad for the viewer.

But again I have no problem with the "new standard" for Bond being a reboot with each new actor. I don't actually mind reboots. I'm quite comfortable with separate canon universes co-existing, even. The annoying skinny kid from Gotham, and Ben Affleck, can be Batman at the same time. I'm cool with that.

King Gizzard 21-01-2016 08:41 PM
Or not suddenly turn up and be a natural blonde

Marsh. 21-01-2016 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 8449417)
Rule changes mid-game are bad. Always bad. Bad for the story, bad for the viewer.

But again I have no problem with the "new standard" for Bond being a reboot with each new actor. I don't actually mind reboots. I'm quite comfortable with separate canon universes co-existing, even. The annoying skinny kid from Gotham, and Ben Affleck, can be Batman at the same time. I'm cool with that.
Yeah, I agree with this.

I think a lot of people subscribe to the theory of each James Bond not being the same person but a spy assigned that code name or whatever.

user104658 21-01-2016 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 8449428)
Yeah, I agree with this.

I think a lot of people subscribe to the theory of each James Bond not being the same person but a spy assigned that code name or whatever.
I like it as a theory but there are a few small links in the "classic" pre-Brosnan films that fairly explicitly state that they're the same guy. Mentions of old missions / enemies / gadgets, things like that. Not so much with Brosnan but I'm sure the dead wife gets mentioned at some point? I dunno. I found all of the Brosnan films except Goldeneye pretty boring :shrug:. And Goldeneye is really only an exception because, of course, Sean Bean is a legend unmatched in cinema.

Kizzy 21-01-2016 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 8449428)
Yeah, I agree with this.

I think a lot of people subscribe to the theory of each James Bond not being the same person but a spy assigned that code name or whatever.
Yes I thought that was it too otherwise how can it span so many decades?
If it's meant to be the same guy then how can he be the same age in the 60s,70s,80,90s, and so on.

Marsh. 21-01-2016 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 8449500)
Yes I thought that was it too otherwise how can it span so many decades?
If it's meant to be the same guy then how can he be the same age in the 60s,70s,80,90s, and so on.
Exactly this. :laugh:

Marsh. 21-01-2016 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 8449469)
I like it as a theory but there are a few small links in the "classic" pre-Brosnan films that fairly explicitly state that they're the same guy. Mentions of old missions / enemies / gadgets, things like that. Not so much with Brosnan but I'm sure the dead wife gets mentioned at some point? I dunno. I found all of the Brosnan films except Goldeneye pretty boring :shrug:. And Goldeneye is really only an exception because, of course, Sean Bean is a legend unmatched in cinema.
I just don't like Brosnan. He's dull yet cheesy at the same time. :worry:

King Gizzard 21-01-2016 09:26 PM
(Was also under the illusion that it was just a name given to an agent)

James 21-01-2016 09:42 PM
The Connery-Lazenby-Moore years are kind of supposed to be the same character, albeit with different personalities. Rebooted for Dalton and Brosnan, and then rebooted again for Craig.

But yeah, the name can be treated like a codename.

Kizzy 21-01-2016 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 8449564)
I just don't like Brosnan. He's dull yet cheesy at the same time. :worry:
http://richflaherty.com/clockwork/images/alex_eyes.jpg

* marsh watching mama mia*

user104658 21-01-2016 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 8449693)
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ly48koNHAS1qdezuv.gif

Second worst movie ever made.

(The worst is "Sex and The City 2")

Anaesthesia 21-01-2016 10:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 8449469)
I like it as a theory but there are a few small links in the "classic" pre-Brosnan films that fairly explicitly state that they're the same guy. Mentions of old missions / enemies / gadgets, things like that. Not so much with Brosnan but I'm sure the dead wife gets mentioned at some point? I dunno. I found all of the Brosnan films except Goldeneye pretty boring :shrug:. And Goldeneye is really only an exception because, of course, Sean Bean is a legend unmatched in cinema.
Yeah I agree. I kind of lost interest in the films though when they ran out of original books to film. Bond IS just a franchise now, it wasn't back in t'day.

Kizzy 21-01-2016 10:29 PM
Therefore I would now if 007 is just a variation on a theme expand the character, it has really been done to death the suave white stereotypical bond.

arista 21-01-2016 11:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 8449769)
Therefore I would now if 007 is just a variation on a theme expand the character, it has really been done to death the suave white stereotypical bond.

White Bond

will stay as its the Story Line.


To much Hype on Bond Movies

Ammi 22-01-2016 05:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 8449564)
I just don't like Brosnan. He's dull yet cheesy at the same time. :worry:
..well we've just fallen out big time matey...






..:laugh:...

Ammi 22-01-2016 06:29 AM
...interestingly, I started this conversation in the staffroom yesterday, being interested in thoughts there and there was many whose thought process agreed with Liv and TS, in the 'changing of back stories'...I guess that it was a 50/50-ish thing...


...I think that him being ageless, is something he has to be because if he wasn't, then he would just die or would have died really and more than anything else, James Bond is a huge money making thing, so he can never die/he can never age...but I don't personally really get that association because in film terms, him being 'born' in the 60's/transferred to the screen then...?...then that would only reinforce what Liv and TS are saying in that 'back in the day'/in the 60's/70's etc, would a black James Bond have access to the places and situations that he did..?...not really because as is often discussed on the forum, thems was different times..anyways, yes he is a 'neutral' character and could be believable as one..(my opinion anyway..)..now situations could be but they couldn't have been originally, with very much a racist/homophobic/sexist etc world ....

..anyways, James Bond is in terms of a character 'an institution'/type thing so he will never age in the way that other franchise characters are aging, characters like Rocky and John McClane, when they're now becoming 'the mentor' type role because the money James Bond is making isn't waning through the decades so he has to stay forever young...it just wouldn't make sense otherwise, so is actually nothing but logic/continuing to carry him on through many more decades etc...


..anyways, I also find it interesting with the best actor ting because I've never thought that James Bond has ever been about acting...there are some fine actors who have played him..Sean Connery, Pierce Brosnan, Daniel Craig but I wouldn't have said that their acting abilities were particularly something that were relevant in them portraying Bond, it's more what having been chosen for the part gave them...the other acting roles offered..?...and that's also what black actors are saying, would they have the same opportunities following on from being James Bond, would their acting worlds open up and expand in the same way or still remain restricted..?...see, that's something we'll never know unless that's something that's explored in the first place, by their being a black James Bond, how careers would progress from that as well..?...(I do agree with Livia actually, I like the sound of Colin Salmon in the role..)...yes, Idris is amazing as an actor and very easy on the eye but James Bond has never been about acting abilities, as I say...Sean Connery was often pretty dire and Roger Moore, well the less he had a speaking part, the better....

lostalex 22-01-2016 08:05 AM
Wait...

but if the Oscars hate black people... and all the blacks stay away... isn't that just giving the Oscars what they want?

Blacks boycotting a racist business, for not including blacks... that seems like a win/win situation...

I don't understand the problem. :shrug:

Marsh. 22-01-2016 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 8449693)
:joker:

Niamh. 22-01-2016 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 8448889)
After the burning car incident are there no votes for foxx?.....
I never find Jamie Foxx likeable on screen for some reason, i don't know why. I watched that interview with him about having saved the man from the car and he's alot more likeable when he isn't acting

lostalex 22-01-2016 10:38 AM
the black stars have plenty of black awards to get.

Kizzy 22-01-2016 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 8450137)
I never find Jamie Foxx likeable on screen for some reason, i don't know why. I watched that interview with him about having saved the man from the car and he's alot more likeable when he isn't acting
I feel the same about james bond, always comes across as arrogant and sexist to me... maybe I'd prefer him if he were black :laugh:

Niamh. 22-01-2016 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 8450674)
I feel the same about james bond, always comes across as arrogant and sexist to me... maybe I'd prefer him if he were black :laugh:
Same, I actually hate James Bond too :laugh:


Did you watch Django unchained Kizzy? Originally Will Smith was supposed to be Django but he pulled out, for me Will Smith and Jamie Foxx are like polar opposites, I find Jamie abit cold in films where as Will is just so likeable, I wonder how that would have changed the film (still loved the film but for me Christopher Waltz made it)

Kizzy 22-01-2016 02:42 PM
No, I'm the least hollywood person, I hate shooting/fighting/action type films. I remember the hype surrounding it and the 'buckets of blood' rep it got initially, deffo not my thango :)

Niamh. 22-01-2016 02:47 PM
haha I love Tarantino films

user104658 22-01-2016 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 8450683)
Same, I actually hate James Bond too :laugh:


Did you watch Django unchained Kizzy? Originally Will Smith was supposed to be Django but he pulled out, for me Will Smith and Jamie Foxx are like polar opposites, I find Jamie abit cold in films where as Will is just so likeable, I wonder how that would have changed the film (still loved the film but for me Christopher Waltz made it)
Will Smith is way too cheerful to be Django... it would be a totally different film. I agree that Jamie Foxx often comes across cold but that film definitely needs that... he's basically a guy that's been pushed far enough to be come a straight up killer-ninja :joker:. Like that's the point really... he barely blinks as he slaughters them.

Sammy L and Leo make the film for me, though.

Niamh. 22-01-2016 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 8450706)
Will Smith is way too cheerful to be Django... it would be a totally different film. I agree that Jamie Foxx often comes across cold but that film definitely needs that... he's basically a guy that's been pushed far enough to be come a straight up killer-ninja :joker:. Like that's the point really... he barely blinks as he slaughters them.

Sammy L and Leo make the film for me, though.
Will Smith can do serious :fist: he was pretty serious in I Am Legend. Oh yeah SLJ and Leo were great too

user104658 22-01-2016 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 8450710)
Will Smith can do serious :fist: he was pretty serious in I Am Legend. Oh yeah SLJ and Leo were great too
He can (sort of) but he can't do cold / repressed emotions. He's happy animated and amiable, or pissed off and shouty. He's pretty shouty in I Am Legend. Not as shouty as Independence Day though... he pretty much shouted every line in that.

Youtube video

Niamh. 22-01-2016 03:00 PM
Just stop being jealous of him TS :flutter:


Oh actually back on topic, seems like Will has spoken up now too

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/m...cott/79107316/

and Reece Witherspoon also commented on it :
http://www.rte.ie/ten/news/2016/0121...scars-boycott/

user104658 22-01-2016 03:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 8450724)

and Reece Witherspoon also commented on it :

https://www.qatarcollections.com/inc...dWuzkbRYLw.jpg
... ... that links to this picture...

https://www.qatarcollections.com/inc...dWuzkbRYLw.jpg

I'm so confused :(

Niamh. 22-01-2016 03:28 PM
hahaha sorry, that was the picture I posted in Lees Birthday thread :laugh: fixed it

Z 22-01-2016 04:00 PM
I dunno, I think it's a bit ****ty to be boycotting the Oscars, most award shows are just a cover for bribes from big labels/studios to push certain stars and very little to do with actual recognition of what's good... I do think there's a lack of variety in the mainstream, but I don't think that's a black actor specific problem - most films now are 1) franchise sequels or 2) reboots of classic franchises. If they're new screenplays, they rarely do well at the box office - I mean the films that won all the awards last year I hadn't heard of until they started winning awards, like Birdman and whatever else. It's all about superheroes and action movies which means you have to be a big burly man or an innocent looking but still sexy damsel in distress with very little room for variety.


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